Leadership In Law Podcast

07 Tips for Using AI in Your Law Firm with Matthew Fornaro

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 7

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Unlock the secrets of modern legal practice with our latest episode featuring Matthew Fornaro, a leading business law attorney from South Florida. Discover how Matthew utilizes AI tools like ChatGPT 4.0 and Westlaw's Co-Counsel to streamline his legal processes, enhancing efficiency while maintaining the highest standards of accuracy. Matthew shares his expertise on using these advanced tools for drafting, legal research, and reviewing information, providing invaluable insights into how AI can save time and reduce costs—without compromising on quality.

Explore the transformative role of AI in your law firm. We also discuss legal mentoring programs and small business coaching.

Matthew explains the critical importance of understanding AI ethics and the necessity of thoroughly reviewing AI-generated content to avoid serious pitfalls, supported by real-world examples of what can go wrong when this step is overlooked. Gain practical tips on how to effectively incorporate AI into your business practices, ensuring productivity and efficiency while prioritizing human oversight. Learn from Matthew's experience and avoid common errors that can have significant repercussions.

Finally, we discuss the broader implications of AI on business growth, focusing on law firms. Matthew offers practical advice for those new to AI, such as investing in advanced versions and using specialized tools to maximize benefits. Learn effective prompt techniques to refine AI outputs and reduce the need for extensive editing. Matthew also shares valuable tips on maintaining control over AI, ensuring good cash flow, and achieving client satisfaction, alongside accessible mentoring resources through the Kauffman Foundation and the Moran Institute. This episode is a treasure trove of knowledge for anyone looking to integrate AI into their legal practice or business operations.

Connect with Matthew at https://fornarolegal.com



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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming Matthew Fornaro. Matthew has been a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. Before starting his law firm, he was an attorney at two prestigious AmLaw 200 law firms focusing on civil litigation. Matthew practices complex commercial litigation, including contract disputes. Matthew assists new business owners in choosing and drafting all legally required documents. He's involved in mentoring new attorneys and is both a graduate and instructor of the Kauffman Foundation's Fast Track New Venture Program presented by the Broward County Office of Economic and Small Business Development and the City of Hollywood, as well as a graduate and instructor for the Florida State University College of Business Jim Moran Institute for Global Entrepreneurship Small Business Executive Program. As a small business owner himself, matthew is proud of his representation of businesses in our community and is also available to assist in all transactional and litigation needs. I'm so excited to have you here, matthew. Welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Marilyn. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I'm excited to chat because we had talked before a little bit about how you help mentor attorneys, but also how you use AI in your firm to help you automate it and be more effective and save time. I'd like to know how you do that and what your processes are.

Speaker 3:

Sure. So you know the first thing about. Well, I got into AI by, like you know, seeing stuff on TV and you know the web and stuff about, like you know, the use of AI and everything. So I really wasn't like early into it, but now I'm heavily into it. So I got into using chat GPT. Now I'm up to chat GPT 4.0. And then I also use a program that used to be independent it's now owned by Westlaw called Co-Counsel, and those are the two AI platforms that I use in my practice.

Speaker 3:

So one of the main things you have to understand with AI is that it is a supplement, not a replacement. So you know they use the term trust but verify. So AI will help you tremendously. It'll help you generate content, no matter what that content is. It'll help you save time, but you have to put up guardrails and make sure you check and audit everything that AI puts out and AI tells you, because sometimes it's wrong and you won't know what's wrong unless you research it. So I always put that as a caveat out there to anyone who's using AI is that it's a supplement, not a replacement, for your own work, product and doing work.

Speaker 2:

Especially when it comes to writing so many times it gets. You know grammar mostly is right, but you know the facts are incorrect. It's comes down to the prompts as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, the and the prompts, as you just pointed out, are probably the most important thing about AI is that you have to give it the correct, very specific prompts of who you want it to be, what you want it to do, how you want it to do it, and put up various you know, regulatory language, or whatever you want to call it, to do the searches Like, for instance I didn't know this until recently that chat GPT is set for giving responses as an administrative assistant would.

Speaker 3:

So that's the level of response unless you tell it to do something. Different is if you gave an assignment to an administrative assistant to give it back to you. So if you are, for instance, an attorney and you want it to, you know, do something as far as legal analysis, legal drafting, whatever you have to tell it that it means to think like an attorney. Otherwise it's going to think like an administrative assistant and then give you that level of response as opposed to a more advanced or higher level of response. So that's one of the most important things.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. It's like a lot of people don't realize you have to give it a role, otherwise you're not like you said. You're going to get assistant type things as opposed to you know, act as an expert copywriter, but then, of course, you're still going to need to edit what comes out of it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so, and the way I use it in my practice is I use it to assist in reviewing information, drafting things, and in legal research.

Speaker 2:

Okay, Now, did you create a custom GPT, or are you just giving it the prompts and then feeding it the information to learn from and then taking the results?

Speaker 3:

I've created, and one of my attorney friends, Rich Sierra, has created a lot of I don't want to say customized prompts, but very good prompts to use in the legal arena. So that's what I use and I kind of have. I kind of go back and forth between the two different programs that I use, by feeding information from one to the other and vice versa, to get like the best possible work product before I then, you know, put my eyes on it, review it, edit it and do whatever I need to do.

Speaker 2:

And has this helped you as far as labor costs? I know you said it's obviously it's making you more efficient. How is how in other ways is it helping your business?

Speaker 3:

Sure, I mean as far as labor costs, the advanced AI has helped me phase out. I used to have a virtual associate and it helped me kind of sundown the concept by the AI can step in and do the work of the virtual associate and do it faster and better one of the things where it's way less expensive to have the two pieces of AI I have per month than it was to pay even. You know, not even a real, not even a corporeal, in-person associate, but a virtual associate. So yeah, it's increased my productivity and reduced my labor costs just in that alone.

Speaker 2:

Okay, all right, great, and you said you're using it to draft documents as well.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Okay, are you drafting contracts and then you're just double checking. You know that they're on.

Speaker 3:

I'll take one of my contracts that I'll have. I'll put in all the information I need in it and then I'll have the AI. Look for it, look for better clauses, look for make sure everything's up to date, look for, you know, conflicting paragraphs or anything. Make it better. And then it'll give me back my contract, but in a better, perfectly updated form, that's, you know, totally compliant with whatever I need. And so I do that with my drafting documents.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and that's specifically through the state of Florida drafting documents.

Speaker 3:

okay and that's specifically through the state of florida. Yes, okay, all right, you can set on the advanced version of chat gpt, because the the free version, whatever only goes back to like I think it's almost up to 2022. Now, as far as what it knows, it's up to 2021. The advanced version is like up to within the last few weeks or few days, so it knows if there's changes to the law or what the changes are, how to apply them, and also the same thing with the co-counsel AI. It's always. The co-counsel AI is always up to date on everything.

Speaker 2:

Okay, great, and are you? Do you bounce over to Gemini at all, or you pretty much stay with ChatGPT.

Speaker 3:

I've tried, like Google's AI, and I've tried Gemini and basically, I think, chatgpt for my use or for my. When I check them out to see what I wanted to do, it worked best. So I'd rather just kind of stick with one platform and kind of I don't want to say master it, but figure out how to use it best, rather than dabble between, you know, google, bard and Gemini or whatever. I just focus on ChatGPT and then I use it to interface with my specific legal program, which it does fine.

Speaker 2:

Okay. The reason I ask is I bounce between the two. I bounce between the two. I use ChatGPT and we're actually building a custom GPT that actually will know federal law, that you can just ask questions and it'll answer you without having to have a paralegal or assistant actually look up the information. But we've been experimenting in the last couple of weeks of having a specific like, say, a bullet list which is most valid or whatever, and putting the same prompt into both platforms pardon me, platforms and they come with almost exactly the same results. So I mean, it's been a little funny. When you do a longer prompt for them to write something, it can be completely different. The interesting thing is Google Gemini will give you three or four different drafts, jim and I will give you three different, three or four different drafts. So but I have to say, consistently speaking, I'm I'm more of a fan of GPT-4 as well, 4.0.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and then also you can get different drafts in chat. You just hit the bottom button, say you know re. Whatever the button is, I forget what it says, like redraft or whatever, and I'll give you a different version of what it put out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm really liking it. Like I said, I agree with you it does save a lot of time and it makes people a lot more efficient, so I appreciate it when my team uses it and, of course, you know, reviews it. Now, when you're doing your mentoring and coaching with other attorneys and small businesses, are you including AI or how do you? How did you get started in that? And then kind of a bit of what are your processes?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so you know most of my mentoring I do through the two programs that you mentioned, the Kauffman Institute and the Moran, or the Kauffman Center and the Moran Institute.

Speaker 3:

So most of that is like set curriculum that we use to help them out with. You know traditional, you know business notions, legal notions, things like that or whatever we're starting to put in like an AI component, that obviously AI is going to hit you at some point in time, so you want to get ahead of it and make sure that you're familiar with the ethics of using AI first of all, and that it's a supplement, not a replacement, and that you always have to review what it puts out. You can't just take it and send it out. And then the same thing with using the prompts you have to understand the prompts and make great prompts in order to limit down what you want and come out. So we're starting to implement that. Probably the next, the next course that I teach for both of those which will be in the spring, I'll put in a bigger AI component based on where AI is now.

Speaker 2:

Right, very good. It is interesting because I mean, we all remember I'm assuming we remember was it the spring that a teacher gave an assignment out and it was a secret question in there. She could tell if you use ChatGPT because it would answer that. So it is imperative that you review all of the results to make sure. I saw an article or was reading a story about someone who tried to use it to write a book and then just takes the book and runs with it and the book makes no sense after about three pages. So you know it's a great tool and I think that's what we need to keep it in mind is AI is a tool. It's not the answer at the moment, but it can make you be much more efficient.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's also an example regarding like legal stuff, of how this attorney in federal court in New York last year filed either like a response to a motion or a motion where literally just hit print and filed it in federal court and it turned out that none of the cases he cited actually exist. None of the citations he cited were real and the propositions of law that he cited were made up and he got in trouble with the federal judge. And you know, I think maybe the bar too I don't know it was, it's a, you can look it up, it's pretty big. It was in like Forbes and New York times and everything. But yeah, cause the guy didn't review it or do anything. If the guy would have reviewed it, he would have seen that these cases don't exist and he would have to replace them with cases that do exist and then he would have seen you know that it necessarily wasn't the right answer and could have went on from there. But that's an example and a lesson on why you have to.

Speaker 2:

You know trust, but verify the AI content Exactly, exactly. Thinking of I mean I love the way you streamlined and what you're doing with your firm Thinking of the future. What are you seeing, how do you see this impacting or where are you going with it? If that's a way to think about? I mean, you're using it to be efficient. Now, what are you, what are your plans, moving forward?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, my plans are to just continue to grow in the efficiency and usage of the AI and what I'm doing and just make sure that I'm always you know I'm not on the cutting edge. I mean there's different websites, youtube channels and everything that just deal with people's prompts for various industries and really into the weeds kind of stuff. But I try to make sure I stay as educated as possible and as up to date as possible so that I can make my business more productive, more efficient at the same time.

Speaker 2:

Okay, right, and I know I'm in some of those groups and and some people get very much in the weed about the whole thing. So and it, and you know if you're running a business it's difficult to get in the weeds about a new technology, but you also don't want to miss the opportunity of it being a tool to help you be better.

Speaker 4:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I like that. You're using that to grow your term and are you being more efficient? Your firm as a firm is more efficient, so you're able to take on more clients at the same time as you're using less labor.

Speaker 3:

Yes, I'm able to do more with less.

Speaker 2:

I mean, that's like the golden rule, I guess, and that's what I'm able to do with the AI Exactly. And are you what? I guess? What? What's what stops you? So where do you see? Are you seeing any hangups with it? Anything that's getting in your way of growing with the?

Speaker 3:

with your firm, like that you know, knock on know, knock on wood. No, I mean, obviously it just comes down to you have to just keep control of the ai and not let the ai control you. As long as you keep up the guardrails, you know you, and as long as you verify everything and check everything, I mean I don't really see a limit to using AI as long as you're in charge.

Speaker 2:

And someone else, that's say another firm, that's looking to do the same thing. They've got. They're trying to obviously trim back some expenses yet be more efficient. Where would what kind of starting point would you suggest for them?

Speaker 3:

Yeah Well, first I would recommend, even if you're just new to the game, pay for the Chat GPT-4.0. Pay the $20 a month instead of the base package. That's free.

Speaker 3:

Because, the 4.0 is up to date, does a much better job and it's able to read and review documents. So it's worth the $20 per month there, even if you're barely ever going to use it. So I would say, first go on it and just explore it at your own pace and just kind of get a feel for not just legal tasks, but just ask it to do standard stuff, to see how things work and how things respond. Then I would say, probably, once you have a handle on, kind of conceptually, what's going on, I would say look to like a YouTube page over someone who is way into prompts, particularly in the area you want to use it in. Like, if you're a lawyer, go to someone who's using it in the legal space, if you're an architect, use it, someone who's heavily into architecture or whatever. And then just you know, kind of soak in the videos.

Speaker 3:

You don't necessarily have to jump on and start doing stuff, but just watch and see what's going on and then go back to the AI and you know, start to implement it. And then you know, do you know, start to implement it. And then you know, do you know, I guess, go through some growing pains and then start out slow in actually bringing it into your business on what you want to do and then just grow from there, once you are comfortable with not only using it but you're comfortable with the work product and you're comfortable with editing the work product and just kind of you know. You know this isn't like a drop everything, do it right now, kind of thing. I mean it's a slow process where you want to make sure you have mastery of the AI before you bring it into your practice and implement it. But once you do, it's going to change things.

Speaker 2:

You know it's going to make things much more productive, much more efficient, save you time and it's going to do a great job, as long as you program it to do a great job and you edit it to do a great job Right Now.

Speaker 2:

I'm a programmer from years ago and we had a thing in programming is called garbage in and garbage out.

Speaker 2:

So if you ask a question that's not thorough, you're going to get garbage out. So I agree, one of the tricks that tricks techniques that that we use is when we're coming up with a prompt we, like we said, give it a role, act as an attorney, act as an expert copywriter, act as whatever don't just be yourself. And then you put in what you want. And then the one thing that has been extremely helpful for writing for ideas, for titles, for any of those types of things the last of the prompt is ask me any clarifying questions, and that's when it comes back and they're numbered and all the things you didn't think to put in the prompt it asks you to clarify before it comes up with an answer. I found with that one question at the end of your prompt, you get so much better results that take less editing, because now you've answered the question, so that you've clarified what you wanted. Have you found that to be true as well?

Speaker 3:

Yes, so that you've clarified what you wanted. Have you found that to be true as well?

Speaker 3:

Yes, and particularly that's one of the main features of the other AI that I use, the co-counsel, which is, if you you know that's a legal specific program. It's a very niche program, that you know. Chatgpt is very generalized. Co-counsel is very specific for the law. So if you want to do legal research on co-counsel very specific for the law so if you want to do legal research on co-counsel, it'll search the full west database and pull up all the statutes and everything you want, just like you're doing old-fashioned research, except this is kind of more interactive because you're using the ai. So when you put in a query it'll feed you back, like you know. Can you please look up all cases in the southern district of florida where you know this judge ruled this way, yada, yada, yada and then hit enter and then it'll come back with like did you mean to ask this instead, and it's a much more refined version of your question. That's probably going to lead to way better answers.

Speaker 4:

And then let it.

Speaker 3:

then you're like yes, and then hit enter and then it'll do the research and pull the legal research for you because it's self-corrected itself to take your kind of you know not so great language or not so pointed language, figured out what you're really looking for and then went and found it for you, oh nice, so it's pulling case law and precedent real time. Yes, and it's all totally up to date, 100% accurate.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so thinking of your firm, who is your ideal client?

Speaker 3:

My ideal client is a small to medium-sized business owner who preferably is in Florida, who's in Florida, but particularly South Florida, and it can be in any aspect of the life of the business, whether it's startup or whether it's, you know, full bore successful business.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so thinking about your idea of client, let's chat a little bit about. You know the difference in going from like working with a startup who's brand new, or a company that's already running, that's been in business for a few years. What kind of approach are you taking with that, with their contract?

Speaker 3:

Sure, you know, obviously, from a proactive standpoint and from a problem avoidance standpoint, it's great to work with startups versus clients that already have a going concern, startups versus clients that already have a going concern. Not necessarily you know that there's a problem with the clients with going concern, but we can start and do everything correct with the startup. And what I mean by that is you know people, just you know, some people have a plan to go into business and some people just kind of go into business because they haven't been in business before and do whatever. So what I like to do with my startup or my new clients is we go over and make sure like they have a written business plan that goes over what they want to do with their business, what their goals are. It goes over their budget, their personnel, their structure, all stuff like that. Then we go from there, we find out, we work with their accountant, their banker, whoever else they want to bring into the fold. As far as figuring out like what the best business organization is for the client to start out as whether it's like an S-corp, an LLC, a C-corp, a partnership, and that's something I like to consult with like a accountant on, just to make sure from a financial standpoint that it makes sense.

Speaker 3:

And then we'll draft the actual articles of incorporation or the corporate bylaws or the operating agreement or whatever documents that go with it, which is kind of the roadmap to how the business operates.

Speaker 3:

It says how it starts, how it ends, how you can bring people in, how you can bring people off, who does what, who owns what, who owes what, how things are paid, how disputes are handled, and that's all in the governing documents which obviously you'd like to have to start out the business with.

Speaker 3:

And then going forward, depending on what your business is, you want to make sure that you have like great vendor contracts, great landlord tenant agreements, great online terms if you have like a website and stuff like that, and those are all contracts that we like to start at the beginning. But then you know, moving forward to the already going concern, I kind of triage my clients who come in, who already are in business, and I make sure that they have all those aforementioned documents and if not, we implement them then, because it's better to have it late than never. So that's kind of my approach for both a startup and an existing client as far as getting their documents in place and how I approach them in a general fashion. Obviously, if someone comes to me with a specific problem, we address the specific problem as well.

Speaker 2:

And do you handle things like even as far as like an employment document, employment handbook, any of those kinds of things, if it's an ongoing business?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's a lot of employment stuff that I handle. As far as you know, one of the biggest issues with a business is employment issues, so you want to make sure you comply with your local state federal compliance thing. So I help clients with that. You know I can put together an employee manual or anything like that. If we get to very specific, very subjective information, I will bring in a board certified employment lawyer or an expert in employment law to assist us and to be part of the team because I want to make sure you get the best result possible to resolve your situation.

Speaker 2:

And, of course, working out an exit plan for the owners. That's part of the corporate structure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, If you want I mean, if this is a, start it up and sell it, or even if it's a, you want to get rid of it at some point in time. I mean, we'll put the plan together for you to be able to extricate yourself when the time is right.

Speaker 2:

Okay, great, that's interesting. I'm very excited with what we've talked about here today. It's like I love the fact that you're mentoring. You know, be able to help start a business, help lawyers get out, get out there and get their business started correctly. If there's one thing that you wanted the listeners to take from from this, this interview today, what would be the one thing you'd want them to take away?

Speaker 3:

this interview today. What would be the one thing you'd want them to take away? Just take your time, don't rush, and make sure you go through all the steps in order to whether it's using AI, whether it's starting a business or whatever it is you do, just make sure you do everything as deliberately as possible and don't do anything too rash, and you should be fine as long as you plan everything out and execute.

Speaker 2:

that's all you can ask for yeah, that's great advice for using ai as well. It's not a type it in and it's done, plan and be prepared, and so in your, in your mentoring, you're actually starting to teach ai as well.

Speaker 3:

Now, who, who can join those mentoring programs sure, sure, these programs the two programs I'm affiliated with are open to. Kauffman is nationwide. There's local programs all over the country. The Florida State thing is all over the state of Florida. There's like four or five different programs that are the Moran Institute. So they're open to anyone who's starting a business, wants to start a business or started business. All you have to do is apply. They're all both online, they're both free and they're both very useful for giving you essentially a very good business education in a very short period of time, which is what it did for me personally, and now I'm able to assist other business owners with that information.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that's fantastic. What challenges are you seeing in the near future?

Speaker 3:

Just in general, not necessarily focused on AI, you know, for you know just real quick on the AI, it's the making sure it doesn't overwhelm you, making sure you're always in control of it, making sure it doesn't take over and making sure that it's always a tool instead of the result itself. With the law business in general, you know it's the same thing with any business it's always making sure that your business structure is fine, you have good cash flow, you have good client satisfaction, you're up to date on all of your requirements and you essentially do the best job you possibly can do for your clients, whether it's transactional or litigation. So those are always issues that face me as a lawyer and as someone who owns their own law firm face me as a lawyer and as someone who owns their own law firm.

Speaker 2:

That's great advice and again, I think it's excellent. I didn't realize that Kauffman was nationwide and both of those programs are free.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. I love that you pointed out the fact that you know AI is a tool. Don't let it. It sounds a little scary to people who are thinking about it. They just it just seems like a scary universe to get into and I love that you say don't let it rule you. Don't let that be your answer. So learn it and learn to train it what you want and it can be helpful. Would you agree with that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's a tool. It's like you know riding a. You know like a riding like a bull or like a bucking bronco or whatever it's. As long as you practice, do everything right, don't over-examine yourself. Whatever you should be okay, but if you get on there and just whatever, you're going to get thrown off and get hurt. So same thing with AI. You got to make sure you do your due diligence, make sure you know you don't ask it to do too much, make sure that you're in charge, make sure you have great prompts, and it should give you the results you need.

Speaker 2:

I think that was important. The one thing you said there don't let it do too much, don't ask it to do too much and stay in charge. I think that's what some people like you mentioned the gentleman that was the attorney that filed that document. We're seeing too much of people just taking what it gives you and running with it and not realizing it is a tool. It can't be in charge.

Speaker 3:

No, that's correct.

Speaker 2:

Well, in case any of our listeners, there's always going to be someone who wants to connect with you, maybe chat with you. Where can they connect with you?

Speaker 3:

Sure, the easiest way is to go to my website, which is fornerolegalcom it's just my last name, legalcomcom. It'll have the links to all my you know my phone number, my email, all my social media. I'm on every platform it'll have links to like some educational videos and some blogs and some white papers. I've done where, at this point, there's enough content on there where it should answer many of like either another attorney or a small business owner's questions regarding how to do certain things or things like that. So I'm pretty proud that I've built up those resources. So, yeah, that's it, just go to my website.

Speaker 2:

We'll definitely put your website in the show notes for this one, and that's great. I mean you made your website a resource. So many people don't do that, and that's important to put as much value out there, so then people know that they can trust you and reach out to you when they need help.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I agree, Marilyn.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you so much for your time, matthew. I really appreciate this. It's been a great interview and again we're going to put in the show notes all that information about how to reach you. And thank you so much for your time All right.

Speaker 3:

Well, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. I hope I answered your questions and it was great being on your show, thank you.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about, and if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.