Leadership In Law Podcast

13 Cybersecurity and Your Law Firm & Team with Dan Cotter

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Unlock the secrets of safeguarding your business against cyber threats with our expert guest, Dan Cotter. With decades of experience as an attorney and business advisor, Dan takes us on a journey from his early days addressing the Y2K issue to his current expertise in cybersecurity, privacy, and big data. Learn how to fortify your small or medium-sized business with proactive and reactive cyber services, from breach response to regulatory compliance and risk management. Dan also sheds light on the power of cyber insurance and how collaborating with tech partners can provide robust defense solutions.

Ever fallen victim to an online scam? We share eye-opening personal experiences with fraudulent invoices and unauthorized credit card charges, emphasizing the need for meticulous verification, particularly in industries like healthcare, finance, and education that hold valuable data. Discover practical tips for law firms to protect client data, identify compliance gaps, and safeguard sensitive information. This segment is a wake-up call to stay vigilant and cautious in your online interactions to avoid falling prey to cyber threats.

Wonder how to enhance your cybersecurity with cutting-edge methods? We explore the effectiveness of account activity alerts, ID protection services, and the critical role of two-factor and biometric authentication. Learn about the pros and cons of complex passwords versus advanced tools like USB keys. As we stress the importance of community among law firm owners, we urge you to connect with fellow listeners and access valuable resources through our website. Stay updated by subscribing and leaving reviews on your favorite podcast platforms—your support helps us continue to provide valuable insights into leading and growing your firm effectively.

Since 1996, Dan has been deeply involved in privacy and cybersecurity matters, notably contributing to the formulation of terms and conditions as well as disclaimers for Fortune 500 websites in the late 1990s. His roles as a chief privacy officer across various companies and law firms underscore his depth in these evolving domains.Dan’s proficiency extends to navigating intricate insurance regulatory matters, overseeing substantial reorganizations within holding company systems, and negotiating a myriad of contracts, ranging from simple to elaborate, including outsourcing agreements. His portfolio includes pivotal assignments such as advising a state insurance department on pioneering insurance company demutualizations and spearheading approvals for significant transactions. He also played a crucial role in facilitating the purchase and redomestication of insurers across multiple jurisdictions.In addition, Dan provides invaluable counsel to nonprofit entities, guiding them through intricate dissolutions, mergers, and conversions. His breadth of experience and knack for navigating multifaceted legal landscapes make him a trusted advisor, ensuring clients receive strategic guidance and resolution on a broad spectrum of legal matters.

Reach Dan here:
X (Twitter) - @scotusbios
https://www.linkedin.com/in/cotterdan/


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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Dan Cotter, to the show today. Dan is an attorney and business advisor with a unique combination of in-house and private practice experience, who is passionate about his client's needs in four arenas insurance, blockchain, big data, privacy and cybersecurity. Since 1996, outside general counsel, from cradle to grave, from formation to sale. And cybersecurity. Since 1996, outside general counsel, from cradle to grave, from formation to sale, and non-profits. His main focus over the last few years has been mergers and acquisitions related to cyber risk and cybersecurity and privacy. Thank you so much, Dan. I'm really excited to have you here, Welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Marilyn, for having me. I look forward to chatting with you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Why don't you tell us how you got started?

Speaker 3:

In law or in cyber or which which.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think in cyber to be. Obviously you know lawyer, but in cyber, what got you into that?

Speaker 3:

So in 1996, I was practicing at a law firm and there was a thing that was starting to really emerge called Y2K. And then I went in-house to a large insurance company and the second day on my job I went to my boss and said, hey, what are we doing about Y2K? And so she called the IT department while I was in the office and the next day they said we'll send somebody up. And they sent up a tech guy who was really working on the integration of a merger at that place and she said you brought it up, You've been working a little bit in this, why don't you do the Y2K? And so that started me on like cyber and tech and privacy.

Speaker 3:

That was 1996. And the EU Directive on Privacy was existing, the HIPAA had just come out and Gramm-Leach-Bliley was percolating and so we started doing it and that was kind of the dawn of the internet, you know, in terms of companies having websites. And so we just started doing a lot of tech and a lot of cyber and, given I was at an insurance company, we were starting to think about those things before 9-11. And then of course 9-11 came and kind of derailed cyber insurance, at least for a bit, and kind of derailed cyber insurance, at least for a bit.

Speaker 2:

But the hackers were warming up and getting ready to do the barrage that they now daily do. Wow, that is true. That is true. So, thinking about the cyber, what do you do for your clients? You said you work for a lot of small businesses, medium-sized businesses. What do you do for your?

Speaker 3:

clients A couple of things in the cyber and privacy space. One is reactive. So if they've had breaches, they've had their websites mimicked, you know some takedowns, they have issues that are percolating. We react to those types of things and help them try to figure out how to navigate those kind of calamities and risks. But more of my work is done on the proactive side.

Speaker 3:

I like to sit down with all of my clients Some come to me just for the cyber and privacy kind of piece but to take an inventory of what they're doing, what information they're collecting and then what their internet presence is and making sure that they're compliant with all these existing and the increased number of state regulations the talk of federal.

Speaker 3:

So I kind of track that stuff and kind of advise them on being proactive in terms of making sure that their employees, their workers, their third parties are in compliance.

Speaker 3:

In the transactional space we do a lot of work to make sure that our clients have addressed the cyber risk and cyber things if they're buyers or sellers, to make sure that the transaction nothing is going to come up. And then, finally, what I do with them is, again, I spent 16 years in-house at insurance companies and so we bring that to bear in terms of their cyber and risk management needs, to make sure that they've thought about cyber insurance and their other insurance packages for when they're attacked. It's not a matter of if but when, and so we kind of try to do all those things, and most of our work again is proactive. We do reactive and address hacks and breaches and ransomware demands, but we're not a law firm that's listed on any policies per se, and so that work is kind of hard to come by, except for the smaller cyber insurance. You know people that carry smaller amounts or don't have anybody designate it.

Speaker 2:

Now. So do you have a way? So you say you're reactive. As far as a proactive side, do you have like with clients? Is there something that you can put on their website server or their hosting to keep that from happening or detect it if it's attempting to happen to hack their website or take their website?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, there are things that you can put online to make sure that things don't happen, and, again, we don't provide the tech solutions to other clients, but we do have a lot of conversations about them. We hook them up with partners that can provide those services. There's a lot of companies and providers out there that will provide different types of alert systems so that if somebody's trying to hit their URL repeatedly password hacks, things of that nature we can advise them on that. The reality, though, is one of the things that I read years ago, and it had to do with the privacy policy and how people were treating things. I forget the company, but it was a tech company and they had 60,000 employees at the time. So this is back in the 1990s, early 2000s. There's so many companies that have 60,000 employees anymore, and what the chief information officer said there was that they had 60,000 kind of approaches and policies and procedures, because each person kind of lived their own existence right, and they have their own reactions. They have their own knowledge level own knowledge level. So one of the best things that I think we can do on the proactive side for people is to again instill in them that testing their employee base is a good idea, and those can be pretty simple tests, and I'll give you an example At my prior law firm, we were given tests every so often that looked legit it was US Postal Service or whatever.

Speaker 3:

Hit this link. So often that looked legit, it was US Postal Service or whatever Hit this link and the CEO would report on how good or bad the reactions were of the 200-something employees throughout the country. And I remember a recent test there one of the more recent tests. They did like a 90% pass rate and the CEO said that's not acceptable. If this continues, we're going to have to start taking some remedial actions against people that are hitting these links and stuff. And these are a safe environment right there. And so, again, the best thing that we can do is to make sure that our clients are actually testing, training their employees to be on the lookout.

Speaker 3:

And the hackers have gotten better and better. They're just like anybody else. They refine themselves. And the hackers have gotten better and better. They're just like anybody else. They refine themselves. And so one of the things that's really prevalent these days is text messages or emails that look legit. You know your PayPal's been charged $700 for a computer. This is Chase. It's a fraud thing. One of the things we always advise everybody is don't hit the links in there, don't phone the phone number that's in that text message, because they spoof these companies very well and what they're asking for is information, and once they have your information, the game is over right? If they have your bank account, your online access ID, your password, any of those things social security number, they can then call email and take all the money that you have in, whatever account it is.

Speaker 2:

That is true. One of the things that we do is, you know, we do marketing for law firms and service-based businesses. Anyone that starts running Facebook ads, specifically, or Instagram, we immediately day one that the ads get launched, we start getting these your copyright violation. We're canceling your page, you know, and clients panic. We try to set to preset the stage right Don't click on anything, don't respond. It's coming as links or as comments on the ads. As private messenger messages.

Speaker 2:

And I'm actually getting the emails to email addresses that do not have Facebook account. So that's the big you know kicker. You know obviously that's going to be a scam, but it's. It's difficult to get people to realize don't click on things. And I do periodically get invoices from companies.

Speaker 3:

I've never heard of saying I just bought a $2,000 computer and I'm like really yeah, I hope it's a good computer, right Because I'm not paying for it, right because I'm not paying for it. So but it's uh. And then sometimes you know what I uh. Recently, uh, on one of my credit cards, I got a message and I thought maybe my son had bought something online because he's got a card attached to it from when he was in college. So I said, hey, have you bought shoes? Because it looked like something legit, you know, and he came back and said no, and I called them up and again.

Speaker 3:

In this case there's someone must have again copied or spoofed a lot of times now on these phones. Right, we have the, the virtual cards, because it said that the person presented the card. And it's impossible because I had the card in my, in my wallet. I looked, you know, because my wife's like, oh you know, did you miss your card, did you lose it somewhere? And I said no, it somewhere. And I said, no, it's right here, I've got the card, physical card. You know all the information. So I have no idea what was going on. It was in Portland Oregon, it was an in-store, and so, again, it's really like you said, it's just something and it's hard sometimes because we're all busy, we're moving fast.

Speaker 3:

One of the scams that's going on in our neck of the woods is the Illinois tollway that you have online for the easy passes when you go through tolls in Chicago area. And my brother fell for one of these scams where it said you know you need to replenish $12 on your card and hit this link. Well, that was a scam. The Illinois tollway now has warnings on its website. But again, when you're moving fast, you're thinking fast. Employees, personal, it's very easy to trip up. But the other thing I tell people and I serve as an arbitrator as well, and a lot of these cases come up now with wire transfer cases is when you do get these things, if you do call the wrong number, never give out your account number, never give out your password. Again, make sure that you're calling and talking to somebody that's actually the legitimate vendor.

Speaker 3:

Like you said, there's a lot of people on Facebook and stuff. No matter what you do, if you post. I'm in a group, the National Conference of Bar Presidents, and every time we have turnover, new leadership. Every August, right, it happens every August at our annual meeting, we start getting these emails I need cash fast. It's to the treasurer, it's to the new president. You know Dan Cotter has asked that you immediately, you know, transfer $1,000 from our account. And so somebody's out there. They're pretty genius, right, because somebody's tracking and trolling and just hoping that one person over the 20 years that's been going on, whatever it is that one person actually falls for it. And now all of a sudden you've got a big loss on your hands.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly Same thing happens when people travel. You have regular travelers on Facebook. Then you know they get their account spoofed and all of their friends get an email. I'm stuck and I've lost my passport. I need money. It's crazy when you get an email or a message on your Facebook and you know you've just started advertising, whether you're doing it yourself or with an agency, it's scary to get something like that. Is there a specific industry that seems to be more targeted right now? I mean, I know law firms obviously collect personal data, financial data, so do financial analysts, so is something specifically targeted? We need to be more careful of.

Speaker 3:

So there's three or four that always hit the top. The number one is usually healthcare. The reason for that is when you think about health information prescriptions, data, genetics that information is not changeable, right. You can't easily change that. You've got prescriptions or other HSA accounts. So healthcare tends to be number one.

Speaker 3:

The second is financial institutions, whether it's banks or insurance companies, and if you've been paying attention, the biggest ransomware to date was CNA Financial. They paid over $40 million and one of the reasons that a lot of these hackers go after the banks and financial institutions and do this is they get a twofer. They can do ransomware on the financial institution or the insurance company number one, so they get money from there, but in the meantime, before they announce that they're in there and asking for ransomware, they've got all the data of all the customers and again, they're big collectors. Financial institutions. The third is professional service firms, like you're talking about anybody that sells a service.

Speaker 3:

Attorneys are big targets of this, and twofold for attorneys. One is in the real estate market. Most states, like Illinois, don't allow wire transfers anymore, and so there's checks and there's money moving or a check. They require wire transfers now and so people know they can see and go online for when a house is for sale and they move the money, they divert it to a different account and then another thing that happens a lot with attorneys and other professional service firms is you get these emails that look legit hey, I need legal services for equipment contracts in your location and then what they do is they give a check and then drain the bank account again. So those are the top three. Educational institutions are another area and again it's because there's a lot of information there financial aid, social security numbers, all kinds of other stuff that then goes on a dark web and could be sold and purchased and then hacked.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So then how would a law firm? I guess this twofold question what advice would you give law firms to protect their client data? And then what can they do to identify any compliance gaps?

Speaker 3:

So on the first piece, again, it's really having a good what they call cyber hygiene, having multi-factor authentication, having limited data available on any portal that's subject to the public right. We shouldn't have all of our confidential and privileged documents out there so that people can log on and see those things. So it should be compartmentalized. They should make sure that they're given limited access to only those people that need to see the data and those things. In terms of gaps, again, they should have some professional taking a look whether it's a forensics company, lawyers or other IT professionals in the cyberspace to kind of do an assessment, like I was talking about earlier, an inventory of what data they're collecting, how they're storing it, what kind of password, protocols and controls they have in place. And then the other thing that I recommend to almost everybody is that you should be taking snapshots of the system as often as possible. At one of the firms I worked at several years ago, they took an hourly snapshot and it can get expensive because of storage and because of the process, but the good news is that if they were subject to ransomware and they were, once somebody went to a site that's known as a watering hole and kind of got us into a mix. The nice thing, though, is that they were able to tell the ransomware bad actors that they weren't going to pay because they could restore uh from an hour ago, right, so there was minimal loss of data, so that those are the types of things that that can be done. Um and uh.

Speaker 3:

Again. It's. It's really uh, having good policies and procedures in place to be like I said. Said it's referred to. If you look it up online. There's more and more talk about the cyber hygiene, a kind of a robust plan of record retention and destruction of access, of what goes online and what's stored, of how you clean up your system so you don't have you know, drafts and all kinds of other stuff existing.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and so that's great advice. Thank you for that Thinking about. And, of course, cybersecurity is huge in the news right now after that 3 billion rate. You know on a personal level? If so, affirm absolutely. But as an individual, what would? What is your response to that Cause?

Speaker 3:

I've seen both sides of it. Okay, out of 3 billion, what are the odds they're going to pick me? And then other people like, oh my God, the sky is falling, so where would you fall within that? So they're on the kind of remediation and kind of proactive side as well. More in the tech space.

Speaker 3:

You know, the reality is we trade off things. Right, we all have these things that are computers and the convenience and there's a big tradeoff, you know. But the reality is that with 3 billion records and maybe every social security number you know again these they're going to have this information for a long period of time. Whoever's got the information, and just like any other group that has a lot of data, they'll have experts that will analyze it. They'll start cutting and dicing and looking at different people's profiles and they'll see where the most harm is. Right, it's just like back in the old days when there were bank robbers that were looking at banks to hit. And still, as today, right, they you know some of them aren't as organized, but the organized ones, like in the Dog Day Afternoon, the movie with Al Pacino right, they look at a bank that has a high activity, has a high amount of cash. It's going to be.

Speaker 3:

The same thing, I think, with these bad actors is they've got all this data. They're going to have different values for different people, they're going to figure out what different profiles look like and with the social security number, they can probably go out and find out different information. So what I tell, again, what you should be thinking about is, if you're concerned about that, if you have bank accounts, if you have other accounts that have your social security number, you should consider changing your passwords and coming up with stronger passwords and different ones for each website that you use. So, again, you can minimize the profile and risk that you have because, again, like you said, that was an astounding revelation last week, or two weeks ago, or three weeks now. The magnitude of that hack is just mind-blowing. And yeah, it is.

Speaker 2:

I mean we have 350 million people in the US but they got three billion security numbers. I mean I see the thing about how would that be me? But yeah, so that's interesting. And I just had another question a minute ago oh, freezing your credit. So thinking about that was another thing that I've seen advised, because some people say that there's certain parts of this individual so say, your address has changed multiple times over the last, say, 15 years You'd be more apt to be targeted because obviously you move around. You probably won't know. And freezing your, you know, like going to each credit reporting agency and freezing your credit, pain in the ass to uncover, but it was suggested as something to do. What's your thought on that? I?

Speaker 3:

think it could be a good method. The other thing you can do, though, is that different services provide these notices and tied to the credit bureaus through my, my work. I don't know what I pay, but it's a very small amount, and I think it's Allstate that provides me with ID protection, so every time there's a new hit or a new inquiry change in any of the accounts that I have, even if it's a deposit or something else of a certain magnitude I get a text and an email saying hey, one of your accounts has new activity on it, and so I can go in there. I can see a list very quickly of what's going on and make a determination of whether that's me or not, and so I think those are, in some ways, better ways.

Speaker 3:

I think freezing the credit works for some people, but for a lot of people you know the reality is is they need kind of that cushion of credit they have, and so freezing your credit might not be the best way to go about it for many people that have to live and exist, but again, there's these various services that will come out and message you anytime there's something significant, and again you can take a look, you can log on Again. You don't hit the link in there. I always go and log on separately on my laptop and then see again, and you know 99% of the time it's stuff that I authorized or I know about. But if there's something that looks suspicious, then that triggers me to be able to call that vendor and say what the heck is going on here. Like you said, the $2,000 laptop.

Speaker 3:

You know if God forbid it actually gets on some account.

Speaker 2:

So Right and the other thing that we're a lot of people that I know of that are doing business online are using two-factor authentication more and more obviously and a lot of websites are requiring it. I was able to go one step further about two and a half three years ago and actually got a little key that is connected to my fingerprint. So literally at my computer or wherever I travel and it works on my phone as well, you have to have my fingerprint to get into some of my fingerprint. So literally at my computer or wherever I travel, and it works on my phone as well, you have to have my fingerprint to get into some of my accounts. I mean, that's like one step beyond two-factor authentication. Is that type of security a good step?

Speaker 3:

I think it is, and I don't think it costs very much, and in fact, I got a replacement laptop at my current firm and on my initial one we set up the fingerprint for a form of ID, and I think it's very effective because, while there's stories and, you know, one of the things that we haven't talked about yet is biometric information, and Illinois is, you know, one of the areas where we have legislation that, until recently, was very good for plaintiffs who were seeking to recover for people that were using it.

Speaker 3:

But the fingerprint's very good because, again, unlike the James Bond movies where, you know, someone cuts off a finger and then uses it for to get into the vault, your fingerprint is something that you have. That, you know again, people would have a very hard time to replicate, and so I think steps like that are excellent ways to again prevent some of this because, like you said, if you don't sign in with your fingerprint, it will log you out or at some point it'll block you, saying you've been too many attempts with the wrong fingerprint. So those are excellent ways, I think, because, let's face it, passwords unless you're using those super long ones, the suggested strong passwords, which then you have to put them somewhere, because who can remember a 26-digit gibberish?

Speaker 3:

Especially when it's, all symbols yeah you're never going to remember that, but the risk is you have to put them somewhere in one of these envelopes or wallets and sometimes those wallets it acts. So, again, the fingerprint is something you carry with you that can't be replicated, and so I really like those types of things that consider things that only you can do. Like I said, the key as well. Sometimes there's like RSA and other keys. They can be kind of expensive sometimes, so people are like, well, that's not a meaningful response, but again, some banks offer those for high net worth individuals and others. I think all those tools that require something to be physically present with you that only you would have is a better method than just a password protection, some kind of you know code on your phone that gets you back in, because once people are in again, if they can break it, then they've got access to everything.

Speaker 2:

Right, and the key. I bought two of them so I have a backup, but both of my laptops use the fingerprint to log in. But the USB key is what was super important and it was like 25 bucks on amazon you know it's, I mean for the cost of the peace of mind.

Speaker 2:

It was, and it takes maybe five minutes to set it up on each of your banks and on your facebook and anywhere you're doing business. So, absolutely well, this has been. This has been really eye-opening. I really appreciate your time. What, what's the biggest takeaway that you hope our listeners learn?

Speaker 3:

Again, be super vigilant and have a skeptical mind when you see these things that come in that you don't expect, or, even if you do expect them, always go to your statements or to your back of your card, whether it's a debit card or credit card. Call that phone number if you're in doubt, because, again, these actors are more and more sophisticated. They have the money to invest. Where's the money coming from to invest? It's the ransomwares that they're getting, the $80,000, the $30,000, the selling on the dark web, whatever data they've collected, and so they have resources. It's not like these are just people in someone's basement hacking away. These are sophisticated and in many cases they're state actors, which means that there are other nations that are really behind these things. So they're very sophisticated, very smart people doing it. So be ever vigilant and when in doubt, don't hit the click, don't call the number that you see, but go external and verify your numbers.

Speaker 2:

Very good, very good, that's great advice. Absolutely Never click a link in those emails and most of the time, if you look at it, the link is not even to the source. I mean, they're not even hiding the link unless they change and buy a domain with a Cyrillic letter in it.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, don't even delete those quickly. Absolutely Great advice. Thank you so much, dan. I know my listeners are probably want to may want to reach out to you or connect with you in some way. Where can our listeners connect with you and learn more about?

Speaker 3:

you. I'm on LinkedIn so you can look me up and I think it's slash Dan Cotter and I post frequently on cyber and a bunch of other stuff, and I'm at dcotter at dickinson-wright W-R-I-G-H-T dot com. You can send me an email there and always happy to chat with folk and even answer questions. So, and unlike some lawyers or you know the mystique we're willing to have those initial consultations and no charge, no fees, but to walk you through issues you may be facing.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic, awesome. I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes as well, dan. Thank you so much. This has been great. I really appreciate the information, the advice and hearing where you started and all the stuff about cybersecurity. It's something we all need to take very, very seriously, and testing our employees, I think, is a great idea as well.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate it, Marilyn. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about, and if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.