Leadership In Law Podcast

18 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome & Perfectionism with Gary Miles

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Imposter syndrome is rampant in the legal profession, but what if there were tangible ways to conquer it? In our latest episode, we sit down with Gary Miles, a highly experienced attorney who has spent over forty years navigating the complexities of litigation and family law. Gary shares insightful strategies for overcoming self-doubt and offers a unique perspective on the challenges younger lawyers face, from billing pressures to time management woes. Through his personal stories, Gary underscores the importance of self-compassion and realistic self-assessment in achieving professional fulfillment.

Ever heard of a wins journal? Gary explains how keeping track of your victories, no matter how small, can transform your mindset and boost your confidence, particularly in high-stress environments like law and sales. We delve into the transformative power of gratitude exercises and how aligning your career goals with personal values can lead to greater job satisfaction. The conversation also touches on the benefits of mentorship, providing a much-needed safe space for lawyers to express their struggles and seek invaluable guidance.

Mentorship and mindset shifts can be game-changers for anyone looking to unlock their potential. Gary emphasizes setting higher goals and the profound impact of having a mentor to navigate past limiting beliefs. We discuss practical strategies like gratitude, acceptance, and mindfulness to manage stress and achieve success. If you're a lawyer feeling the weight of your practice, Gary's expertise in managing a law practice and his dedication to continuous learning offer actionable tools for turning stress into success. Don't miss out on this episode packed with practical advice and inspiring stories designed to help you thrive in your legal career.

Gary Miles, a seasoned law practitioner for over four decades, has dedicated his career to litigation and, more recently, family law. As the managing member of Huesman, Jones, and Miles in Maryland for over three decades and now of counsel to the firm, his diverse experience includes being a trial lawyer, managing partner, author, leader, podcaster, coach, and entrepreneur. His true passion lies in helping people solve their problems and guiding them toward liberation from the prisons that hold them back. 

Having experienced the pressures inherent in the legal profession, Gary is deeply committed to helping his clients find fulfillment in their practice. He equips them with practical tools to overcome obstacles, thereby enabling them to achieve the success and freedom they aspire to. 

Gary's influence extends beyond the courtroom. He hosts a popular, highly-rated podcast, The Free Lawyer, with two weekly episodes, and is the author of the insightful book, Breaking Free. These platforms allow him to share his wealth of knowledge and experience with a wider audience. 

Reach Gary here:
www.garymiles.net


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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, gary Miles, to the show today. Gary, a seasoned law practitioner for over four decades, has dedicated his career to litigation and, more recently, family law, as the managing member of Huseman Jones Miles in Maryland for over three decades and now of counsel to the firm. His diverse experience includes being a trial lawyer, managing partner, author, leader, podcaster, coach and entrepreneur. His true passion lies in helping people solve their problems and guiding them towards liberation from the prisons that hold them back.

Speaker 2:

Having experienced the pressures inherent in the legal industry, gary is deeply committed to helping his clients find fulfillment in their practice. He equips them with practical tools to overcome obstacles, thereby enabling them to achieve the success and freedom they aspire to. I love that Gary's influence extends beyond the courtroom. He hosts the popular, highly rated podcast, the Free Lawyer, with two weekly episodes, and is the author of the insightful book Breaking Free. These platforms allow him to share his wealth of knowledge and experience with a wider audience. I'm excited to have you here, gary, welcome. Well, thank you for having me, marilyn. I appreciate it Absolutely. Tell us a bit about how you got started.

Speaker 3:

So, in terms of practicing law, I followed my brother's footsteps quite some years ago and entered a small firm and wanted to be a trial lawyer, and that was the firm I chose. I did mostly civil defense work for many years until I transitioned and kind of reinvented myself as a family law attorney about 15 years ago, and that's what I did mostly. I then relocated from Maryland, where I'm licensed, to North Carolina and relocated from Maryland, where I'm licensed, to North Carolina. I'm still of counsel to my firm. I practice on a limited basis and I have now started trying to do everything I can to help and support lawyers. I spent 45 years arguing with them and now I want to wrap my arms around them and help them succeed and find the freedom they deserve.

Speaker 2:

I love that. I love that. So what are you seeing are the biggest challenges for younger lawyers right now and how best to handle that?

Speaker 3:

For the younger lawyers a lot of it has to do with billing and the hours. They feel like they work 10 or 12 hours a day and they look at their time sheet and they only billed four. They're afraid of overbilling and they're afraid of not meeting the billable hour requirements and that creates some stress. But for all lawyers it's seeming like they have too much work to do and what they feel is not enough time to do it and that creates a lot of stress and a lot of overwhelm.

Speaker 2:

Okay, all right, great and Mike, I wanted to touch on imposter syndrome, because what you're talking about there's stresses on both sides of that. I feel like imposter syndrome because what you're talking about, there's stresses on both sides of that. I feel like imposter syndrome is a huge thing to blame on a lot of our stresses.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and I find the concept amazing, except that I suffered from it as well. But it's almost that the more successful you are, the more you fall prey to imposter syndrome. The more successful you are, the more you fall prey to imposter syndrome. And for me, I remember being in my 50s managing part of my firm trial lawyer extremely successful track record, and yet I felt like it was all pretend, like I was pretending to be who I was instead of really having that level of achievement. There are a lot of other good lawyers having that level of achievement. There are a lot of other good lawyers. I'm not trying to be arrogant about it, but I had some level of success, but I didn't believe in it. Others did. Others complimented me for it, saw me that way, but I didn't see myself. And I've now learned that I'm not the only person who felt that way.

Speaker 3:

So many lawyers who are very successful, highly regarded by their partners, their clients, by the legal community, feel like they're not that good and it's a real problem. I don't know exactly where it starts for each person. I think a lot of it had to do with perfectionism. We strive to be perfect. We never quite are, so we're always seeing ourselves as not that successful. A lot of it has to do with competition, which begins in law school, where there are just so many folks striving to get those limited number of A's. I think some of it has to do just with comparison with others. We see others who give an image of having everything together and we feel like from the inside we're not that good. Everything together and we feel like from the inside we're not that good. But it really is a struggle for so many people.

Speaker 2:

I think not just Lars. I think a lot of people feel like, okay, if they knew me Right. It's like a friend of mine said to me one time if we speak to our friends like we speak to ourselves, we wouldn't have any friends.

Speaker 3:

That is so true.

Speaker 2:

I think imposter syndrome gets into that Exactly.

Speaker 3:

And we blame ourselves. We blame ourselves a lot and I use something similar, like we should all talk to ourselves the way we do to our children or our best friend or our spouse. Where you know my wife does something wrong, I'm quick to forget oh, don't worry about that, honey, it's not a problem. But I drop a darn glass on the floor and I beat myself up because I created a mess and broke a glass and she's of course, like it's not a big deal, but I let it bother me too much. So we can be very hard on ourselves.

Speaker 2:

I think you're right. What would come over? I mean, one of the things I do is a wins journal and the only thing that's allowed in that journal is good things, right. You can't put anything in there that would be construed to be negative. That's funny and I find that and I'm working with my team to do the same thing and I find that that helps me kind of. I don't want to say prop myself back up. But you know, when you start feeling like I broke that glass, now I've made a mess that has to be cleaned up and I have to go get another glass, whatever the drama is, you put in your head. How do you overcome that? Or how do you coach people to see the best in themselves or see them as other people do?

Speaker 3:

Well, first off, what you're doing is one of the great tools because we often focus on our losses, our struggles. We think about the day and what didn't go the way we wanted it to or didn't go well, and I think focusing on our wins is really good. I believe in affirmations. I work a lot with my clients. They get an app that they can use where they can record their own affirmations. Some of them are aspirational, the way they want to be seen. Some of it is really the way they should see themselves. But hearing them in their own voices saying I'm worthy, I'm a good lawyer, I work hard for my clients, is worthwhile to hear. I think we should focus on facts, not feelings. So, using me as an example, when I think of okay, I won six cases in a row, I have a good book of business, my staff loves working with me, my firm's in good shape.

Speaker 3:

Why do you see yourself as an imposter? You know, when you focus on the facts of what's going on, that can really help. And I think changing our self-talk to something of acceptance and self-belief can really help. We can change how we see ourselves and how we think about ourselves. And the final is using some outside source a best friend, a law school classmate, a spouse or, for me, a mentor. I think almost every one of my clients that I coach has struggled with some level of inadequacy, insecurity, self-doubt, and I can help them really change that. I can help them see themselves in a different way, and it's so affirming, after we work together for three or four months, for someone to say you know, I know I'm a good lawyer, I know I'm good at what I do. And it's so heartwarming because sometimes someone outside yourself is the one who can help you see how you truly are and how successful you truly are.

Speaker 2:

True, my coach has a saying. He says you can't see the full picture when you're in the frame. Yep, and you're absolutely right, that's a great saying Having an outside you. Exactly so when it comes to affirmations, I recently downloaded an app that I listen to in the morning and it's self-talk, basically, and it's just getting yourself talked back to where it really needs to be, right, you know, reminding yourself who you are, what your value is, and I think that's been incredibly helpful for me, and I've had my team doing the same thing.

Speaker 3:

It just I think we have to remind ourselves that what we have accomplished and what we have forward and when we hear ourselves in our own voice, telling ourselves that we're worthy, what our strengths are, what we're good at, can really help. Another thing I have my coaching clients do is create a self-image. How do you see yourself now? Good, bad and indifferent, as objective as you can, as fair as you can? But how do you see yourself now? And if you could create the ideal Marilyn, what would she look like? What is the ideal Marilyn in your profession or career? And then we figure out what the differences are. Some of them we can make a plan to get from here to there, but what I find often is what they see as the ideal Maryland is who you are right now, that many of those traits they don't give themselves credit for actually already having them.

Speaker 2:

That is an excellent exercise, I think that's. I haven't heard that one before. That's very, very good. And you said affirmations in your own voice. Now I have obviously have. Well, it's not obviously, but I have affirmations around my house, like in the bathroom mirror, those kinds of things that you read out loud. Are you suggesting something like you record those and play them back, like when you're out on a walk, or something like that?

Speaker 3:

Yes, the app that I used to use I think it's called Think Up, think Up Okay, and you can record a series of affirmations and then when you're out, walking, driving in the car, you can play them Each day. A new one might come. You may end up with 15 or 20. And you can play them sequentially and hear your own voice telling yourself positive things about yourself. And some lawyers think that's a little hokey, that's a little corny, but it works and it's a way to actually change our self-talk, which is so much of the problem. The problem isn't we're not good enough. The problem is we tell ourselves we're not good enough. So affirmations can be a tool for doing that.

Speaker 3:

I love your wins journal too, because a lot of that for me came from expectations. When I was trying cases, I expected to win the cases. I tried Not necessarily a bad thing to be confident. But when you get to a point where it's an expectation when I would win that big case, I wouldn't get any joy out of it. I expect it to happen, I expect the sun to come up it was just what was supposed to happen and I lose the joy of the victory. But on those occasions when my expectations weren't met and I lost the case. You know, I was crushed, crushed and and that's why celebrating your wins is so important, because often we take them for granted and we focus on the things we didn't do that well that day and we go to sleep at night thinking I messed this up, I messed that up, and we get in this negative spiral because our, our mind, just sometimes is directed to the negative things instead of to the positive things.

Speaker 2:

I think you're absolutely right. I find that also, like in sales and other people in my industry. You know when you're doing really, really well and you're up here, you forget what it feels like to be down here. And then, when you get down here, you forget what it feels like to be up there and having a wins journal that's based on reality, that's based on data. You're actually doing it, being able to go back and look through and say, look, this is what went well. You know, this is the data that I am where I need to be or going where I want to be.

Speaker 3:

And I don't know about you, but with my clients I have them put in their wins journal, not only true victories, but sometimes how well they handled a challenge. Maybe it was actually an unsuccessful result, but yet how did? How do we handle it? Did we show some resilience? Did we learn some lessons from it? Did we respond to that person, who, who was nasty and didn't treat us the way we wanted in an appropriate way? Otherwise it might be loss, but sometimes, when we handle those challenges well, that's even a bigger victory than winning something.

Speaker 2:

True. And if you think about, if you make your wins journal almost like a brain dump, like we want to put things on our to-do list so we can mark them off, right, so you don't want to filter your wins journal. This is what I tell my team. We don't filter it. The only thing that's not allowed in your wins journal is anything negative, Right, but I mean simple small thing, personal things, business thing, anything that's a win we need to be celebrating and it teaches our brain to see more wins Right In our daily life.

Speaker 3:

And somewhat related to that, and one other thing I do is have folks really work on gratitude. So sometimes our self-doubt comes from not being grateful for the things we have. So one exercise I have my clients do every client is for 30 days to write down every morning three things you're grateful for. And that might be easy I'm grateful for my spouse, I got a great dog, I got a wonderful child. Some of those things are easy, but you can't write down the same thing twice. So after 20 days you've written down 60 things you're grateful for, and they have to be different things. Then you're actually like, wow, what the heck else can I be grateful for?

Speaker 3:

And so you live your day searching for something to be grateful for, to put on your list for tomorrow, and when we live life, searching for something to be grateful for, our whole mindset changes All of a sudden. You know, I'm not so bad, I don't really doubt myself. Look how blessed I am, look how fortunate I am.

Speaker 2:

I love that, that you can't reduplicate it, because you know, sometimes, when I'm going through the exercise as well, my brain goes no, I can't say that, I wrote that three days ago. You can't write that again, right? So to make you search for it. I really like that idea. Do goals play into your?

Speaker 3:

coaching, kind of a values alignment exercise. Because what I find with a lot of lawyers is, you know, they got what they thought was their dream job. They're making a lot of money, they have prestige, they're in a nice firm and they're miserable. And they come to me like I feel stuck. This was my dream job. I feel like I'm such a loser, such a failure, because I got this great job and I'm unhappy. Well, maybe that's not the job you're supposed to have, maybe you're not in the right seat on the bus.

Speaker 3:

So we look at what their values are, what things are important to you. Is it money? Is it prestige? Is it the kind of work you do? Who you represent? Would you like to have more independence, more autonomy? Would you like to choose what area of law you want to work in? Would you like to choose who you represent? Would you like more time with your family and friends and help them evaluate what that is, because maybe that particular firm isn't the right place for them? So we begin by looking at their values. If you could design your perfect job in law, what would that look like? What would that be? What would you like to be doing? And then we set a plan for achieving that.

Speaker 2:

Wow. And then of course, that includes what do I look like in that job? Right, Exactly, Full evaluation. That's very interesting because I had a friend that finished college, got her doctorate, got the job of her dreams at 27, and then went through a period of time like what's next? She's worked and worked and worked and worked and got it. So it is an idea of reflection and evaluation. I like that you start with that before you move into the goal setting.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I call that the achievement trap. You know, you think she got just the position she thought she wanted and she wasn't happy. And sometimes it might be getting that job in the firm, and then it may be a junior partner and that didn't do it, and then maybe it's a shareholder and well, I'm still unhappy. And then we strive for something more and because we get the goal we were striving for, realize it didn't bring us satisfaction and maybe that's because that's not the right goal for you.

Speaker 2:

Excellent, excellent, thinking about your clients and what you're doing now. What are the benefits of mentorship? Obviously, we want to be able to see things outside of our scope. What do you bring and why should lawyers think about considering mentorship?

Speaker 3:

one at all to talk to. And they may be right. They can't go to their managing partner and say I'm struggling, I'm confused, I'm not doing well, I don't think I'm getting it, because they feel like they'll be judged and a black mark will be against them and maybe they don't want to worry their spouse and say I'm struggling at work because they don't want to scare their spouse. So, having someone where they can talk to in a way that is confidential and private, but someone with experience and wisdom, who's been there, done that, probably done that wrong and learned from it I've done too many things wrong and learned from them. That's the first advantage. The second advantage is they can get some guidance. When they don't know what to do or where to turn or how to handle something in the office or how to deal with another attorney, they can get guidance from someone who is there. They get support and encouragement. We talked about imposter syndrome. I'm very encouraging, I'm very positive, I'm very affirming because it's true, because my clients have so many talents they don't give themselves credit for.

Speaker 3:

And the other thing is what you talked about with goal creation. So often we tell ourselves we can't do that, we can't take that next step. We can't be in that position, we can't achieve that goal because we look at our past and we look at, maybe, things we didn't do well, or at least we look that we haven't achieved that yet. Like I've never done that. How could I possibly do that? And I've seen this with my coach. I started a podcast.

Speaker 3:

I told him I can never do a podcast. I'm too mature, that's not me, I don't know technology. He said sure, you can and you'd be great. And I did, because he saw in me the possibility of doing a podcast or writing that book. I could never write a book. He said why can't you write a book? You're a good writer and so I write a book. You're a good writer and so I wrote a book, but my own. I've never done either of those things in the past. So I said I can't do them. I see that with my clients. I've never done that before. I can't do that. I said of course you can. I see in you the ability to do what you can't see in yourself, and to me that's one of the greatest gifts of mentorship is a mentor can see in a client a future, talents, success that they do not see in their own future, and that's an important part of goal setting, like we talked about before creating a vision of success that we see in our clients, that they may not yet see in themselves.

Speaker 2:

I think you're absolutely right with that. My coach is the one that encouraged me to start a podcast. He's been, he's had a podcast for a couple of years now and you know he said it and said it and said it until I finally did it. But I think you're absolutely right, having someone you can confide in that that see and remind you. Like, even when it comes to goal setting, I tended to set lower goals than the data showed I should, and the coach is the one that brought them in bringing in the data, follow the data that you know you're shooting too low and it's something I didn't even look at. So having that outside confidant, I think, is incredibly important for anyone. So, thinking about our listeners, what would be your three main tips for success and how to get the best out of their career?

Speaker 3:

Well, the first is you know you use a coach and I use a coach, and we were already fairly successful before we used a coach. I think that's really important. The analogy I draw is I played golf since eighth grade. I had a coach when I started playing golf in the summer, between eighth grade and ninth grade, and I've had a golf coach every year since. And you may think, gary, after 55 years, you should know how to play golf by now. You shouldn't need to have someone telling you how to do it. I know how to play golf, I know everything that you're supposed to do, but what I don't know is what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong, where I'm missing the boat, and that's where a coach can help you see those things. The boat, and that's where a coach can help you see those things. You look at the Olympics. Every one of those top tier athletes had a coach, even though they're the best in their field, best in the world, but they all had a coach.

Speaker 3:

Three other mindset things that I think are really important One we've talked about already, which is gratitude. It frees ourself from so much negativity. The other is acceptance. So often in life we focus on the things we don't like. Our managing partner is not nice to us, our client is too demanding. Lawyer on the other side of the case is so difficult, he doesn't keep his word. And we focus on those things and we recreate our own stress by thinking of those things and instead we should just accept them. That lawyer's a problem. He's a difficult person. That's who he is. He's always going to be that way. Now how do I handle that? How do I respond? What's the best way to respond? My managing partner is really hard on me. I can't change that. That's the way he is. But what should I do about it? So we accept those things we can't change and then make the best choices we can for our future.

Speaker 3:

And the other is mindfulness, being truly present in the moment. So often I live in the future. I'm thinking about where I'll be next, I'm thinking about what could go wrong. I'd worry about the outcome of cases, and particularly in law, which is very results-driven and very competitive, and there are probably results for you and your staff as well. And we live in the future thinking, oh, I want to achieve that goal. I got to get that result, I got to get that sale, I got to win that case and that creates stress. So be present, do what you do in your field well in the moment, in the present, and I'll do what I do in my field well.

Speaker 3:

And be present in the moment and focus on what we're doing, but not worry. But let go of the outcome. I mean we're going to win some, we're going to lose some. I think of sports. I'm a Baltimore Ravens fan. They play really hard, they got a good coaching, but sometimes you lose despite your best effort, and that's okay, that's going to happen. Don't worry about the outcome, just worry about our effort. As long as we've put forth a good effort, then that's all we can do.

Speaker 2:

Very good and, of course, keep your wins journal yeah absolutely Absolutely. Absolutely. This has been excellent. What, what? Who would be your ideal client? Is anyone listening that wanted to reach out to you for coaching and that sort of thing? Who would be your ideal client that would reach out to you?

Speaker 3:

Well, really, any lawyer who is struggling, feeling stressed, feeling frustrated, I'd like to turn that stress into success and that frustration into freedom and I can help them.

Speaker 3:

But some examples I have a couple lawyers in big firms who suffer very, partners in big firms who suffer very unique stresses of their own. I have several younger lawyers who are sort of just getting started and feel they need someone to help them bridge into being a good lawyer, handling the stresses of time and doing a deposition for the first time. But my most important niche right now are folks in small firms who either own their own practice or partners in a small firm, because I managed my own practice for over 30 years and I can really help them with understanding the finances and I have a network of consultants who can supply certain services, whether it's marketing or a virtual law office administrator. That really can help the small firm lawyer, because often they don't know much about business. They know about being a good lawyer and they spend too much time doing things that other people could do for them much time doing things that other people could do for them.

Speaker 2:

Right, Exactly, Exactly. This has been. This has been very enlightening. I've enjoyed our conversation. If there's, I know that some of the listeners are going to want to connect with you and maybe reach out to you. Where would be the best place to reach out for you?

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Marilyn. I'm very active on LinkedIn under my name, Gary G-A-R-Y Miles, and my website is garymilesnet. Has a link to all my podcasts and all my LinkedIn newsletters and blogs and my book there and they can email me at garymilesnet.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. I'll make sure that those are in the show notes. And wow, this has been very, very exciting. I've enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show notes and wow, this has been very, very exciting. I've enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show today, Gary.

Speaker 3:

Well, Marilyn, thank you so much for having me on and for all you do to help folks out there.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.