Leadership In Law Podcast

21 Observations from a New/Millennial Partner about Law in 2024 with Joshua Offenhartz

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 21

Share episode

Join us for an enlightening conversation with Josh Offenhartz, a rising star at Collar Nevergert Carlson Kellogg in Phoenix, who shares his remarkable transition from government relations to becoming a dynamic civil litigator. Discover how Josh's early fascination with law and history propelled him into a career that intertwines business and government. With a keen focus on problem-solving and supporting entrepreneurs, Josh reveals the importance of community engagement and networking in building a successful legal practice. His unique perspective provides invaluable insights for young professionals navigating the complexities of the legal world.

Explore the evolving landscape of law firm marketing in 2024, where traditional networking meets digital innovation. We discuss the challenges and opportunities of leveraging social media and online presence in a field often wary of self-promotion. Josh offers a fresh take on embracing content marketing to forge authentic connections and highlights the changing work ethics among young attorneys. Gain a deeper understanding of the dual role lawyers play as both legal experts and business strategists, and learn about the nuanced dynamics of partnership pathways in modern law firms.

Josh is an Arizona native, who grew up in Tucson, Arizona.  He attended college at the University of Arizona, where he earned his B.S. in Public Administration.  After college, he attended Arizona State University where he earned a Master’s in Public Administration and a Juris Doctor.  Josh also believes in giving back to the community. He is a member of Madison School District’s Financial Advisory Board and a board member of the Desert States Region at the Jewish National Fund.  He supports the Phoenix Art Museum as a member of the Men’s Art Council and helps others by volunteering with Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Arizona, the Saint Mary’s Food Bank, and the Wounded Warrior Project.

Outside of work, Josh enjoys spending time with his family.  He is also a passionate sports fan, and amateur cinephile, and he teaches a class for teens that promotes leadership, civic engagement, and philanthropy.

Reach Josh here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joffenhartz/
joffenhartz@kahanafeld.com


Join our new private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com

Join our private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at
https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins



Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, josh Josh Offenhart, to the show today. Josh is the partner with Collar Nevergert Carlson Kellogg in the Phoenix office. He is a business attorney who represents clients in the finance, medical construction, real estate and culinary industries medical construction, real estate and culinary industries. Additionally, josh serves as outside counsel for several small, medium and growing businesses that need day-to-day legal advice for their growing companies.

Speaker 2:

Josh takes pride in solving problems and loves working with entrepreneurs and business owners. He is detail-oriented and believes in providing his clients with a very thorough investigation and analysis of their case to ensure an accurate assessment of risks and the best possible outcome. Josh also believes in giving back to the community. He's a member of the Madison School District's Financial Advisory Board and a board member of the Desert States Region and Jewish National Fund. He supports the Phoenix Art Museum as a member of the Men's Art Council and helps others by volunteering with Big Brothers and Big Sisters of Arizona, the St Mary's Food Bank and the Wounded Warrior Project. I'm excited to have you here, josh, welcome.

Speaker 3:

Hi, marilyn, thanks for having me, and when you read the bio like that, I mean it makes me sound, I think, much greater than I am, but I do like to be active in our community and I do take pride in the work and the help that I provide my clients.

Speaker 2:

So very happy to be here today, and I'm looking forward to our chat. Absolutely no. It sounds fabulous. I love all the work that you do. Tell us a bit about how you got started and partner at such a young age.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, I joke, and if you ask my mother she would say it's no surprise. But law was always going to be in my future From a very, very young age. I liked to argue and I broke the rules and so obviously law was there. But growing up I was very passionate and very excited, as many young people are, about history which leads into current events, which leads to what's happening in the day to day. And so originally I went to school for business because I was one of the millennial children that was told you've got to get a job with your degree. And so originally I went to school for business because I was one of the millennial children that was told you've got to get a job with your degree.

Speaker 1:

And I knew nothing about business.

Speaker 3:

My mom was a public school teacher, my dad was a criminal prosecutor and I took an interest again in the intersection of business and government and government relations and all of that, and so I quote my first career, if you will. What was actually in that nexus? It was working on behalf of private sector entities and resolving problems at that intersection of government and business, whether that was zoning disputes or zoning regulations and permits, or advocating at the legislature for big changes. And what I saw is, in that industry, what I think we see on TV, which is it's very dirty, it's very cutthroat, Some people revel in it, some people love it and more power to them. I am a problem solver at heart and that's what I discovered at my time there. I like working with people to solve problems, to make things better or to achieve goals, if better isn't the goal in itself. And so I joke that I was always going to go to law school, but I think my pivot to law started sooner than I potentially had on my roadmap in my head, and the rest of that is history.

Speaker 3:

I went to law school. I used my experience to pivot into litigation focusing on protecting business owners and their rights and actions brought by the federal government. I learned quite a bit about the law or the business of running a law firm. I was graduating from a law firm. I was a clerk. They didn't have the ability to bring on an attorney, so they said you can stay on as a clerk or you can go find a new opportunity. And I was ready to dive my toes in and ever since've been a practicing attorney and I got some very important advice in law school, which is typically you can always pivot from being a trial attorney to doing what they call transactional work or corporate work the paperwork, the business, the document type work. Very few people pivot back and so I started as a civil litigator and I've been doing that.

Speaker 3:

That's part of my book among other things and I learned what happens when contracts or business disputes go wrong, and I learned those trial court skills. And then what I noticed early on in my career was one I'm in the community, I'm meeting people, and all of that is great. But I was running into my peers that were entrepreneurs instead of young doctors or young lawyers or young accountants and they had problems. And so they came to me and we saw those business problems and I realized, with my business background and my private sector background, that my prices had to be affordable and my services had to be value add because, as any young entrepreneur knows, budgets are tight and revenue is scarce. And so we grew together. And then you know, as you get more established in your career and as you grow within a firm, you know success begets success. And so those businesses grew and are successful and referrals came and the law firm has its clients. And so you know, here we are.

Speaker 3:

But really I think and I know we're going to talk a little bit about this in our further conversation but all I think is how I got here at a young age is I wasn't afraid to lean in. I worked the extra hours I took on the extra projects I didn't check out. You know, right at five o'clock. I would come in early and, if need be, I'd put in the time and I sought out mentors that helped me grow and think about my career. And so you know, I chalk it up to hard work, I chalk it up to persistence and I say that I love being an attorney and I love what we do, and that, just, you know, makes it easier. I won't say I don't work, even though I'm passionate about it.

Speaker 2:

It is work, but I don't mind it because I love it.

Speaker 3:

Awesome and it sounds like you really take advantage of the community and your network in the beginning stages to grow, yeah, and that I chalk up to all sorts of things, but I was always taught or raised to be part of the community. Right, you go to the events, you volunteer, we are blessed, so we give back to those that are on. You know having troubled times, and so you just meet people and I'm someone that you know. If I run into you on the street and I think you could connect with this person, hey, do you know so? And so let's get you together. I think it works. That just comes naturally to me and so I think, through those opportunities, you know opportunities happen, doors open, things happen, and then you know, once again, you grow and get some experience and people start trusting your professional experience. You know you get those referrals as well. So I certainly didn't go into it, you know, cynically or with a self-serving eye, but it is true that that's where you know dividends are paid in the long run.

Speaker 2:

That's true. I always, when I had a local business, always was in, you know, the chamber and the women's network and all of that, you know, and supporting each other and making sure that everybody. You know rising tides lifts all boats right.

Speaker 3:

Amen.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very cool. Well, thinking about what you did, the way you grew, with just your networking and your natural ability, tell me a bit more about how you market in 2024. How are you marketing your partnership right now to get more cases?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I think you know the Internet is in full swing. Social media is large and in charge. You know we're on the cusp, if you believe the news and the entrepreneurs of this AI revolution, which I am candidly very excited about.

Speaker 3:

But I think marketing in 2024 is, or can be, a challenge. And so, you know, the first step for me and really I would, you know, offer to the audience and some of our you know your younger listeners or you know up and coming listeners, I should say is, you know, you have to balance this how did they used to do it versus how do we do it now, because one of the challenges that I continue to face and some of the tightrope that I walk is, you know, I understand that the internet is a powerful tool that puts our message and our brand in front of the entire world. But I work with partners that you know, I totally understand and I sympathize with the way they view it, but they view that as bragging right. You don't put your successes out there, you know, they speak for themselves. You earn that reputation in the community and they're not wrong. I just don't think they realize that the Internet has made us a global community, and so that pool is much larger than the Chamber of Commerce or the local bowling league or something like that. So I try to be active in the community itself, doing traditional marketing, handing out business cards, networking events, things of that nature. But as far as I think some of the content marketing, what we do is we're on the social medias, we're on the internet and I try to leverage my passions, my experience, into other opportunities.

Speaker 3:

Again, I like education, I like teaching, I like talking. So I like to teach CLEs, continue learning for attorneys. I like to come on podcasts and share the small slice of knowledge that I've gleaned over the years. You know we do all of that and you know I write, we publish, we tout our successes, because you know the other tip that I give for people in 2024, and again it's this balancing act, it's you are your biggest advocate. Unfortunately, there's no one out there that's going to really fight for you. That's going to toot your own horn, and so you've got to do that yourself. And the trick, at least in my mind, is always how do you manage bragging versus marketing and where's that line?

Speaker 3:

The other thing that I come across is and you and I talked a little bit about this in the lead up to the call is there's this push in 2024, beyond just content generation, which is we want our authentic self, you want interaction, you want this community, and how do you build that online? And so you know, to the extent practical, you know I try to contribute to conversations. I don't want to be, you know, the negative Nancy or the troll in the comments or the chat in the comments, right, but you know you want to try to add value, add to the conversation because you know again this is where these water cooler conversations are happening.

Speaker 3:

This is where these professional conversations are happening. And then I would be remiss if I didn't say you know, I've got a young family and two small children and I'm surprised by you. Know what stores have been opened just by you know the school sports and the preschools and the drop-offs where, oh, you're the attorney, can I bug your ear? Or you should talk to this one. So you know, again, it's really just being out in the community, it's being proactive and it's recognizing, I think, what your strength is and leaning in.

Speaker 3:

I would not recommend to somebody that doesn't write well or doesn't present well that you write blogs or that you put out video content. But if that's a strength, lean into it. You know, if you have other strengths, lean into that because you really, you know, need to be out there, you need to be generating. You know that marketing, I guess they call it. You know numbers. If whatnot and success happens, you know they're not going to Google your name and pick your name out of a hat and you know, just call you blind and call you cold.

Speaker 3:

That really doesn't happen anymore, and so I think young attorneys that are waiting for the phone to ring. That's not going to happen unless you're out there generating those calls that come in at a later point.

Speaker 2:

Exactly Now do you? That's extremely well said about that, because I think it's super important that we are out there, whether it's it's video or whatever, but involved on social media. Now I know that you have some boomer partners that you're working with and you know it's generational and being nice I'm a Gen Xer, so I'm being nice but it is a different thought process. How do you do you do a lot of videos? Cause I one of the struggles I have with my clients is trying to get them to do something as simple as an intro video. People do business with people they know, like and trust. That's why the networking you're talking about works so well, right, so online, we've got to get that across who we are, our voice, and so people feel like they know us before they approach us. When you're like you said you're right, people aren't just going to pick up the phone. You put something out there so they know you. Do you do anything like that? Do you have run-ins with them that they don't want to do something like that?

Speaker 3:

So you asked a couple of questions in there. They're all fabulous, I think. Let me take the last one and work backwards. As far as myself, I will admit I am not a master of the video medium and it's something that I'm learning and I'm trying to find help so that I can do more video content, because I do think we've moved in that direction as far as the internet is and content is concerned. But again, think about it, I'm a younger attorney, I'm a millennial and I'm having to learn these skills because the internet that I grew up with, which is very text-based, which was website-based, which was word-based, is still important. But there's this new layer and if that's the case, just think about Gen X and above. So it's absolutely something where you've got to stay current, you've got to learn new skills and you've got to be open to that. But I do come into the generational struggles all the time and you've got to be open to that, but I do come into the generational struggles all the time.

Speaker 3:

You know, again, there is this idea that just some partners that are older have this idea that even just putting out the content of hey, we won this case, or hey, we generally, you know, achieved this result is unnecessary bragging. But what they don't realize is our clients who are hiring us and looking to us for help. You know they want to go and brag on our behalf. You know, hey, my attorney just got a big win. Or they're saying it to their manager or boss. You know, hey, these guys we hired, they're doing good work, they're getting wins. You can cross market there where all of a sudden they have a problem in California. Well, they saw, my California team just did good work. You know it selfforces. So that's something that I think we've gotten a lot of success in bringing people along with that sort of traditional let's tout the wins element.

Speaker 3:

Where it gets a little dicey is in the conversation. Right, because again there's this idea don't brag, the work should speak for itself. They don't care about Josh as a person or Marilyn as a person. Now, the opposite person you know now is the opposite is true is people want to connect, they want to know who they're working with, they want to give the work to the people that they trust. So we have really ongoing conversations about that and I have to say that I have not made any headway in that.

Speaker 3:

Engaging in a conversation, conversation it's something where they you know the partners that I work with at that level they just think it's too dangerous, there's too much risk, you know, because in their eyes it's. Is there a confidentiality issue? What if a competitor sees it and sends it, you know, manipulates it and sends it to a client? What if a client sees it and misunderstands it? What if the clients see it and they disagree because you've expressed something personal that they are on the other side of? So you know what I, what I try to reinforce and, you know, help us grow is. You know you can be tactical, you can be specific, you can be, you know, I don't say neutral, but you can be substantive without being confrontational or bombastic, I think it's factual, you can be factual.

Speaker 2:

Factual, you know you can't take factual out of, out of, but I think it's. It's also not necessarily generational. Only I think sometimes it is location that's true, you know, you know. So there's a bit of that struggle. But you know, I'm glad to hear that you are working through that. And the one thing I tell people is you know, don't think you have to. You need a fancy camera. You don't have to go out and get anything fancy. If you've got a cell phone, especially an iPhone or a Samsung, you're good to go no-transcript.

Speaker 3:

You know a glass or a happy hour or networking event, you know, put them in front of a camera, let them go and see what comes of it. First of all, they're going to love the product. When they see it back, you know the final cut and they're going to see that they already have the brand. They just don't think about it in that way. One of the best examples I really enjoy hyper-local is we had a judge that retired from the bench here that is now back in private practice and one of the things that he does is he posts other judicial opinions and he marks them up and it's sort of a side-by-side right, like it's a here's what the judge was doing, here's what I would say as a judge and here's my practice point. And so again, you can have these brands or these contents that are at the extremes that people find very helpful.

Speaker 3:

Our office does a lot of what's called insurance defense work. There's an insurance adjuster that I follow, that you know one of her. It's either daily or several times a week. She posts tips for outside counsel, things that, as an insurance adjuster, they want their attorneys doing, and so there are times where, if I see it, I send it to the team and say, you know, hey, free advice from not our client, not someone that we work with, but someone in that industry. Things to think about. So you know again, I think in a lot of these cases with older or inexperienced partners and attorneys that aren't online, showing them the possible is a great you know. Seed planter.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, one of the things that we've seen that works really well for ads, as well as on websites and social media for good interaction, was doing like an interview style. So we had a client that wanted to do a video, or we wanted them to do a video of each of their FAQs. Right, it's estate planning which can be complicated.

Speaker 2:

I mean every practice area has something that's complicated and literally sat in a restaurant before it opened and great lighting iphone and she looked at the interviewer and answered, reiterated the question. That answered the question, so it looks like a full b-roll. Okay, right, yeah yeah but she wasn't. She wasn't nervous looking at the camera. It's not like she was completely profile right.

Speaker 2:

But, it was. It was so relaxed and we get so much great feedback on those videos because she was giving. She was talking to a client, a potential client, answering the questions, and that was such a great idea. So just a thought, if you're, if someone is too nervous looking at the camera, that's an interesting idea to do and it works really well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I like that, and then the two sides. That's a great idea. I'm going to write that one. I'm going to write that one down right now.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, we call it the interview style or the B-roll where they're not looking. And there's a friend of mine does marketing for restaurants and he keeps statistics. His team keeps statistics for social media which videos do the best and by far like double the engagement are the ones where he is not looking at the camera Interesting.

Speaker 2:

It looks like he's talking to somebody on the other side of his desk, but the camera's here. People love it for some reason. I don't know. Maybe it's the little thing, the gossip thing. I feel like I'm listening to somebody's conversation, whatever he gets a lot more engagement with that.

Speaker 3:

I believe it it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, very interesting. Well, thinking about the new associates that are striving to be partners, do you have a reach partner?

Speaker 3:

Do you have any advice or discussion of issues that these's strange to think that there's a whole generation of attorneys that are coming up that aren't technically my peers, right, it's really eye-opening in terms of the progress and passage of time. But a couple of things I think stand out, at least in our firm. And then I've talked across the industry. You know, as far as Arizona, southern California, the Southwest is concerned, don't claim to be an expert, but you hear a lot of the same things, which is, you know, there seems to be this impression or this idea that being an attorney is a nine to five job that comes with a very lucrative, you know six figure salary. And you know I'm not sure where exactly that idea first came from. You know, attorneys have always been sort of, you know, white collar and sort of glamorized, but it's really not a nine to five job. And what I tell people is this you know, we are in the business of offering legal services as a product. I can't tell you when your client is going to need that service, and so you know you need or should be willing to be ready for that phone call, for that email and, if necessary, that work Whenever it comes in, with boundaries, I'm not saying be available all of the time, but our criminal attorneys you know people, things happen at night. They've got to be ready. That's one part of it I said I think you know. The other part of it is you know it's called the practice of law and I equate it to you know. The other part of it is you know it's called the practice of law and I equate it to you know you need 10,000 hours to get good at something. The analogy that I really like is reps or swings in sports, and so you're just not going to get the experience or the reps. You know. If you clock in at nine every day and you clock out at five every day, it just is not enough time to gain enough experience to build those skills quickly. And for some people I think that's the type of job they want, that's the type of career they want. I wish them the best. I hope that they find that role and more power to them.

Speaker 3:

But if you're somebody that wants to become a partner and let me phrase this differently a partner is or can be, an owner of a business, right, that would be an equity partner. The owner of the business A non-equity partner in my language is sort of a manager on their way to the owner of the business. And so you have to ask yourself what do I need to do? How would I want, or who would I want, to own or co-own my business? And I think there are very few instances, outside of maybe the biggest law firms period, where just being a really good lawyer is going to get you there. That's like step one, you have to be good at the job just to be good at the job, and then from there it's well, how am I contributing to the business? That sort of non-equity partner, that phase one partnership typically is, can you pivot from just doing the law into managing the services as a service? And then, obviously, when you get to that equity stage, you're running a business. And so I think too often lawyers are trained as lawyers.

Speaker 3:

Many of us don't come from my business background, either practically or academically, and they don't have that mindset a period and they think come in, build a work, do the law thing, and this is how I get there. So what I would recommend practically is, if your law firm hasn't done this or they don't do it, go and seek this out. Right, you should need to. Even if it's napkin math, you should need to know how much revenue money am I generating, which is generally your hourly rate times how many hours you work. Everybody does that and the number is huge and I deserve more money.

Speaker 3:

But here's the part that you don't usually know it's how much do you cost to be an employee and that's your salary. What are your benefits, what is your portion to cover you if you have a secretary or a paralegal? What are? What's your insurance cost, what's your portion of the rent or the overhead, what's your portion of the software or the hardware? And so you know, once you, if you're able to do that and again it can be even basic napkin mask generalities I have found in my career and in many cases is most young attorneys, if they are profitable, do not become profitable until September, october or November of the calendar year. And so if you realize that even though I'm generating this top line, that's great I'm not really earning any money for anyone, myself or the firm, you know, until the end of the year it becomes a little bit, I would say it's humbling, and you realize the business side of what you're doing and you can really rethink your value. You can really rethink the value add that you provide to the firm and again, that gives you leverage when you go in to ask for a raise or an opportunity or whatever it is because you're not just going in and saying hey, I generate this much

Speaker 3:

revenue but it's I'm this profitable or I'm this much value add. I would add a word of caution there is I've seen this taken too far and I admit this is not my story. I heard it from a partner in a firm in town where he had an associate refuse to do work on his cases because the hourly rate for that client was not the most efficient use of the associate's time. So one that associate for being hyper critical of the numbers. But remember your job is to help do client work, so don't do that. You know again, it used to be a fireable offense. Now it's not, so much because we're at a different age and different time. But you want those reps, you want that opportunity, you need to get good, you need to understand what you do and the service that you provide and you're not going to do that. You know, just sort of going through the motions. You really got to dig deep and do the work and then understand how that work contributes to the business.

Speaker 2:

And do you find that you see a difference in the work ethic in the younger attorneys? Or is that because we're hearing about that on social media and in just regular, you know, in general, employees and I'm just wondering have you seen that? Or is that something that you're not really seeing in the law?

Speaker 3:

So you know, we're absolutely seeing it. I would say there has been again my opinion a fundamental shift in something. If I had put my finger on it, they'd probably give me a prize of some sort you know, nobel or something like that but there seems to be the entire tacit agreement in work seems to have been adjusted, if not outright broken, and so, yeah, there's something going on where, you know, people used to understand I'm going to work. They expect some base level, which is how I don't get fired and earn a salary. You know, if I go above that, you know good things happen and that was the deal Right, and better companies gave better benefits and took care of people and you can. That's all business culture theory. So you know that is what it is. No-transcript yesterday.

Speaker 3:

The thing about law and the law that we do is you can't hide the work. The work has to get done, somebody has to do it. The question is really when and who, and so it is a problem, and I don't want to say that it's just younger attorneys. I think younger attorneys, like we talked about, have this misconception of I can nine to five it and, and you know, make all this money right out of the bat. I think that comes with age, experience and time, but I do think that there is broadly a type of person who came back from covid with this a sense you know, again, somebody else is entitled or responsible for giving me money to take care of me and I have no serious obligation to give back and to earn it and I don't know how we fix that. And again, if I had the answer I would be on. I think you know talk shows doing writing the book.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, true, if we had the answer to that, it'd be groundbreaking, because it's just. It is very interesting how things, how the work ethic changed, and it seemed to be post-COVID that's the only thing I could put a finger on, but yeah, very, very interesting. Well, it sounds like you've done a lot. I love to hear what you're doing and in the way that you're communicating with your senior partners and the way you're helping out and mentoring people and working with businesses. It sounds like you have a very busy schedule but very fulfilling with your volunteer work and your children and everything as well.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know. Look, I think part of that is personality. I find, you know they say idle hands are dangerous hands. I think that was true for him as a young person, and so I try to be busy. I like to be busy, I like to fill my time, and then from there I think I've learned valuable. You know life lessons, which is you have to know when to say no, you have to know when to say yes and you really have to do things that you know you are passionate about and that don't. You know everything's going to drain energy, but it's not going to suck it out, so that you're able to go, you're able to contribute, you know, and you're able to stay active, and so you know, I love it. I've got some Gen X partners that tell me you know, enjoy this time. Now you're going to want to slow down and you will have earned the right to slow down a little bit in a few years. I don't know if that's my personality type, but maybe they're right and I'm ignoring the advice and I'll hit that wall when I get there.

Speaker 3:

But you know, it's like I said, I get a lot of pride and value from helping our clients solve their problems. It's intellectually stimulating, it's rewarding to solve those problems. I'm somebody that was brought up and raised to work hard and to be part of the community, so that just comes naturally. And you know, now with a young family it's interesting because I'm getting sick more often than I was because you know, bring stuff and touch stuff and you're all over. But other than that, you know that is the biggest growing lesson because you know I am learning to be even more patient, even more patient. And it really is the greatest test and it is a hard one every day. But I don't know that I would trade any of it for anything at this point, except maybe the fame and infamy if we solve the post-COVID work problem. So I'll leave that door open. If someone has it, let's write it together and figure it out.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, Exactly. Well, this has been an absolute pleasure. You're very interesting. I really like everything that you're doing and I love the way you're talking about the tech and getting online. It's been a pleasure chatting with you. Thank you so much for your time. Now, if anybody wants to connect with you sometimes our listeners want to connect with you and where's the best place to reach you?

Speaker 3:

Sure. So I think the easiest way to reach me at the professional level is either through LinkedIn Joshua Offenhart or the firm website knchlawcom those are sort of the two big ones and then from there if we connect and I don't drive you away, there are other layers from that but Josh Offenhart's on LinkedIn and then our email is on the website knchllawcom, josh Offenhart's on there, and those are the two best ways.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. I'll make sure that there's links through the show notes and, josh, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, marilyn, I had a blast and to your audience.

Speaker 2:

I hope that you were each able to find something to take and, you know, to carry with you, because that's the whole point of these conversations is to spark great ideas and thoughts and, you know, put them into practice. Absolutely, that's fantastic. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Marilyn Jenkins

Host