Leadership In Law Podcast

24 Using Employee KPIs to Deliver White Glove Service with Steven DeBonis

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 24

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Steven DeBonis joins us on the Leadership in Law podcast to share his remarkable journey from the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office to his thriving career at Cordisco Sale law firm. Steven opened up about the challenges he faced early in his career, which honed his skills in resilience, empathy, and leadership. As he transitioned into personal injury law, he learned the importance of being a reliable advocate for his clients during their most trying times. This episode offers an insightful look at how his background as a prosecutor shaped his approach to legal practice today.

Explore how personal injury law firms can transform their operations with Key Performance Indicators (KPIs). We break down the firm's structure into intake, pre-litigation, and litigation teams, highlighting the benefits of a seamless handoff process. By aligning KPIs with staff fairness and operational needs, firms can create a culture where employees feel empowered and in control of their bonus potential. Steven shares the "Are You Hungry?" mantra that drives success and client service and discusses the role of cultural events and tools like BonusLink in boosting morale and fostering peer recognition.

Discover the power of team collaboration and transparent communication in creating a positive work environment. We delve into the significance of celebrating team members' contributions and using systems like Litify to maintain transparency and efficiency. Steven discusses how a supportive work culture contributes to personal and professional growth and highlights the honor of guiding clients through their legal journeys. The conversation concludes with exciting future developments like moving into new office spaces, underscoring the importance of connection and shared purpose in achieving success.

Reach Steven here:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-debonis-esq-personal-injury-attorney
(personal): https://www.linkedin.com/company/cordisco-law-llc/posts/?feedView=all (law firm)
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@CordiscoSaileLLC
https://www.cordiscosaile.com/

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, stephen DeBonis, to the show today. Stephen joined the Cordisco Sale law firm in 2020 after over four years in public service. A graduate of Drew University, stephen was a standout on the baseball team, earning MVP honors and a landmark conference championship. He recently received a rising star nomination from Super Lawyers in 2024. Stephen earned his law degree at Rutgers and went on to pass both the Pennsylvania and New Jersey bar exams. He started his legal career at Philadelphia's district attorney's office, handling cases ranging from drug crimes to homicides, trying countless jury trials with great success. He later served on the Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office before joining Cradisco and Salem. Outside work, he enjoys spending time with his family, his dog, staying active, attending sports events and traveling. I'm excited to have you here, stephen, welcome. Thank you.

Speaker 3:

I'm ecstatic to be here. It was almost like that first day of kindergarten. Get those jitters Picking out my outfit today. My wife was like no, I don't like that. I like that you look presentable today, so I'm elated to be here. I appreciate you having me on and I'm excited to talk about everything in the law and be Awesome, I am excited to have you here because I really wanted to chat a little bit about.

Speaker 2:

I usually say, tell me how you get started and then we get into it, but I'm interested on how you feel your experience in the district attorney's office helped you excel in private practice and leadership.

Speaker 3:

So I was fortunate enough to, after I passed the bar exam in Pennsylvania, be offered a position at the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office and those days I call them the OG days are close to my heart for an array of reasons. It's kind of they throw you into the fire and it's that sink or swim and it's that mentality that really shows the people that thrive and the people that the pressure cracks them and it's not a negative thing if you thrive or if you fail, but you kind of see the camaraderie that is instilled in that office and a lot of those people that are from that office I still talk to today. Guy Andrea is one of them that I do a lot of sex assault cases with and just the experience and it's talking with victims of heinous crimes that you can't imagine, that you have to find within yourself, separating when you go home that hey, this is an awful thing that happened to this child, this is an awful thing that happened to this adult and being able to move forward with your life, find joys in your life, but also be able to snap back in and say I need to help this person. And it's a very high level, thinking that you never think, as a 25, 26 year old, you're going to be doing. And that office gave you a lot of freedom, which I use still today, to prep a case, to evaluate a case, to make you out of your comfort zone.

Speaker 3:

My father, my grandmother used to say God rest their souls. The day you stop learning is the day you start dying. And looking back in hindsight, you never really realized that and you're like, well, that's what that? That's what he was talking about, that, that that drag of the cigarette and looking out into the open like a movie he was. He was instilling leadership skills in you. He was instilling you the want to be hungry and to help people.

Speaker 3:

But that office really set you up, excuse me. It instilled with you the late nights, the preparation, the balance of work and also taking on these responsibilities, that, up to this day, that these people who have been wronged and harmed in a crime, you're their knight in shining armor and you need to wear that badge of honor proudly. You need to be able to take another sip of coffee, cancel plans with friends because you are their one guiding light. And a lot of times, with these cases, when we were successful in a jury trial, we were successful at a waiver trial or we were able to have it get over the initial preliminary hearing. That's a chapter in their book that is a positive. They're used to a positive. They're used to these negatives. They're used to these people not being able to fulfill promises. They're used to distortion. They're used to just chaos and you're a calm to the storm and it's really something that there's no amount of money that could ever capture this feeling. There's no tangible item.

Speaker 3:

There's no Rolex, there's no fresh press suit. I tell my wife many times and friends they're like, hey, how was your days at the DA's office? I go think of not having a cup of coffee for a week and then having that fresh brew. That's not to marginalize the experiences that these individuals have gone through, it's just a refreshing. It's that fresh of breath air. It's that perfectly fit suit. It's that, it's that perfectly fit suit. It's these simple things that in in their lives they can turn the page, they can get some consistency.

Speaker 2:

they can see that not everybody's bad, there are good people in the world right and, and I guess going into personal injury, you're kind of keeping that side of the. You know the being their, their knight in armor. You're just in a different position to do it.

Speaker 3:

It's hard sometimes because as a prosecutor for many of the viewers, I mean, I'm sure and enlistors that criminal side you have one shot similar to the civil side. You get one shot at the apple and one bite at the apple, but from a criminal side you're able to advocate and get plea negotiations and get guilty verdicts. That leads to incarceration many times, where people are behind bars Shifting to the civil side. I can't do that anymore and that's one of the first conversations that I have with a lot of these sex assault victims is I wish I could be that criminal guy for you, but this is my limitations. My limitations are only monetary, and monetary sometimes scorns people, especially with these more wealthy individuals that think that they're above the law and they think that they can commit these crimes and groom and commit these heinous acts of sexual assault. At the end of the day, that burns them a little bit sometimes, more than sitting behind a jail cell thinking about a 24-7 because guess what they have.

Speaker 3:

Sign that check. They have to send it to you and many times it's not the insurance that's forking the bill, but if it is the insurance, their premiums are going up. So it's it's kind of like a constant reminder when they pay that premium that I tell or they or they write that check, that I tell clients you're kind of on their mind, rent free 24-7. When they sign that check first, that first installment, or they have to free up their premium because of this settlement that we were successful in delivering. You're on repeat and you're just, you're playing a vinyl in their head on non-stop and take that and with a grain of salt.

Speaker 3:

So it is a little bit sometimes a struggle that you have the limitations of the criminal side from the sex assault cases, but even motor vehicle crashes, where it's a vehicular manslaughter or something of the sort, where it's not insurance, the criminal law and the legislative instill these particular punishments with not driving with insurance. But there's limitations and unfortunately, one of the things that in the civil side I have to rest with is knowing that I can't be that guy that's asking for 10 to 15 years. I have to take on a new form and it's making peace with it and the validation of someone saying thank you for just listening is always a positive thing. That is nice to hear. On the civil side, I tell most people it's a thankless job and I love it because I compare it to the three thankless jobs in America Teachers. They're educating our youths and they're always getting kind of pooped on for lack of a better word.

Speaker 3:

Waitresses because they are the hospitality industry. They're busting their butts to make sure that they're making ends meet but making sure you have the best experience. And then usually on three, four is like the teachers and garbage man. I put us right in there because it's a customer service. Things have changed much differently than what they used to be in the personal injury side. It's a customer service. You want that white glove service which we try to do and we pride ourselves on Crisco and sale, but it's not.

Speaker 3:

It's not the day and age where it used to be, where you're just a friend of a friend looking for an attorney. You have the Internet. You have to be where you're just a friend of a friend looking for an attorney. You have the internet. You have billboards. If you drive down I-95, there's 2,500 of them, every other one and they're funny and it's a lot of information that's coming at you at once.

Speaker 3:

But it is a struggle, but it's a good struggle. It's a nice journey of seeing where I was to where I'm going, and I remind myself that every day that I'm thankful for those experiences. I'm thankful for having the opportunity at Middlesex County. I met my wife there. I couldn't be more happier than that. But I also love the experiences that I had and the supervisors, christopher Crubright being one at Middlesex that just pushed me out and said well, that's a good answer, but that's the easy answer Find something else, push this evidentiary issue to the next level and find a way to make yourself better, but also the client they don't have to testify, or something like that Go, the extramarinal, yeah, Excellent.

Speaker 2:

So that when you said moved you in, your father started moving you towards leadership. But then the Public Defender's Office I mean the prosecutor's office were also grooming you in leadership as well and helping you be there. So you're taking on a leadership role at Kurdesco to Sale and I understand that you do that. With that leadership role, you've taken a little bit of different approach as far as team mental health and evaluations. That helps people see continuously how they're doing, instead of having a shock evaluation at the end of the year. Henry, talk a little bit about that and what kind of KPIs you're watching for, and are those KPIs different depending on the level of the job?

Speaker 3:

At Kodisco and SAIL we've kind of gone bird's eye 50,000 foot view and we talk with staff and we get some feedback and this has been and it's still in the making. I've been here for about six, seven years and this has been a three to four year progress process, not because we're stalling but because it's a puzzle and we're putting those pieces to make them fit and sometimes the pieces change on you. Sometimes you can't find that corner piece that you want to find so badly, so you move to the middle of it and you start to build that out and then, lo and behold, that end piece kind of fits it At the leadership within the leadership team, acronis Goin Sail, there's four of us.

Speaker 3:

It is Michael Sail who is the managing partner, myself, lance Fair who is the operations manager.

Speaker 3:

And then there's Caitlin Jones is another individual that kind of does the closing department and kind of is like the staff individual team member who kind of gives us that feedback. So one of the big things that we've heard time and time again, and myself included, is I always hated when a supervisor or a fellow team member would call me in end of the year. We're talking about the firm health, we're talking about bonuses, we're talking about just how I'm doing as a team member of this squad and you, you get that compliment sandwich, you get that you did this really good, you did this, we want you to improve, but but but you did this good. And then you kind of tap them on the back and you send them on their way and everyone was like okay, I guess I'm doing my job well, I guess I'm doing and thriving like I'm supposed to.

Speaker 3:

And what we've seen is that the same mistakes were happening, in a sense of we provide a very comprehensive report of rating one to five and feedback. We want to hear their feedback and it's all an algorithm that we put in, but the consistent theme was that what I told you in 2019 was the same issue in 2020. What I told you in 2020 was the same issue in 2021, and we're scratching our head and we're saying why isn't things changing? Why are we not learning? Why are we not progressing? So?

Speaker 2:

what's the missing piece?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so there was an aha moment where there's a quarterly meeting four times a year, so you can have that responsiveness and it's not like you're getting the floor taken out of you or you're getting T-boned by all this information that you're not doing. Now we can kind of take a step back and one of the processes that we put in place is every three or four months we're having a quarterly meeting and we're having those meetings with myself, Michael Sale and Lance Fair and we're going over these and what we're doing is we're detailing our KPIs. So we're not only telling you what you're doing well, what needs improvement is, we're also quantifying and letting you control your own destiny in hitting those KPIs. And these KPIs took time to kind of put into place because we want it to be fair to staff. But we also wanted to identify the needs of a personal injury firm.

Speaker 3:

Personal injury firm has many needs. It's obviously step one is getting cases. You need cases to come in. So we're broken into an intake team, a pre-litigation squad and then a litigation squad. Obviously, each different position holds different roles and different responsibilities, but there's a handoff and one of the things that we instill deeply in the culture of Prodisco and sales, being proud of what your hand wants. It's not just like all right, here you go, oh, now it's all off my desk. I checked the button and we're good. We press the button, Everything's fine. It's not kicking it down the hallway, it's being proud of that, that of your work product, handing it off.

Speaker 3:

So what ultimately came to fruition is put these KPIs in place for the pre-litigation staff so that they're able to control their own destiny on a bonus at the end of the year. They know how much money is going to be quantified in from a personal performance, not the firm. We do a separate for firm and if they're hitting those KPIs, great, You're doing something well and I want you to share with the staff what you're doing. If you're not, okay, we'll talk about it in that quarterly meeting, not the end of the year, because just because you didn't do well in the first quarter and you might have not gotten the full merit of the of the bonus, doesn't mean that you can't come up and again and knock it out the second third and fourth.

Speaker 3:

And what we also saw was this job wasn't for everybody in the pre litigation. This job wasn't for everybody in the litigation. Michael sale has kind of had a theme and Michael Sale has kind of had a theme and I think I'm going to have to get a tattoo at some point of it. It's are you hungry? And it means so much more than, yeah, I would love a burger and fries right now, but are you hungry to succeed? Are you hungry to have the white glove service for these clients that come to you in the worst part of their lives where nobody's been there to help them, there to help them? And there was that mentality going back full circle, for me at least, when we started to instill these KPIs and RU Hungry Mantra to the Philadelphia District Attorney's Office, that sink or swim mentality. You're going to find staff members that love their job and they want to be here and they want to help people and they wear the emotion because they give a hoot. And then you have some that, not that they don't care, but it's just not for them, it's not their cup of tea, and they realize that, yeah, it looks great on the outside looking in.

Speaker 3:

We do cultural events once every quarter as well. We did paint and sip recently. We've done various events where we'll go bowling. We've done bowling a few times as well. Laser tag I keep pushing for it but hasn't won yet. That I keep pushing for it but hasn't won yet. That's a great point. But coming back to it is we have these KPIs, that we put them in place and you see the team members that want to grow with the firm, but you also see the team members that want to thrive and different people. Their want to do well is unlocked by different things. Sometimes it's validation, a simple hey, you're doing a great job. We have a great application called BonusLink where the staff members can send each other points and attorneys can as well, and those points can be transferred in for cars, attire, clothing, trips. It's a very cool app and it's very rewarding to kind of sit back and see Maria sending Nikki 10 points because she helped her with a question about litigation and it keeps people talking and it kind of breaks down those barriers. But circling back to the KPIs, you see people that want to be here and you see people that want to thrive. But it also allows us as staff members that if someone needs a little help with.

Speaker 3:

One of our KPIs is two client reviews. So some people are really good with administrative tasks of opening up a case, ordering medical records, managing the case, in a sense of talking with the clients, but they get gun shy when they have to talk to somebody on the phone about asking for something. It's a very weird movement. I can talk to a woman in the face, I'll talk to myself, sometimes in the mirror and my wife will hear me. But notwithstanding, there are some people who just don't like to talk to people and ask them for things. So we have lunch and learns where to get that KPI.

Speaker 3:

Google reviews are sometimes the lifeline of law firms People don't like. When you pick up a cell phone and you type in personal injury lawyer, there is many things in the background that are popping off in that algorithm. It's what word you pick. Did you use attorney versus lawyer? Where are you in the geographical setting? Are you by a pinpoint that Google recognizes or are you a little bit far out? All those little things. But one thing you can control is how well your rating is, in a sense of how people are perceiving it. We all do it. We go to Reddit. We go to Google If someone recommends us a restaurant. I just did it yesterday. My wife and I we went to Philadelphia to grab some pizza. We're on this pizza kick right now where we're trying to do.

Speaker 3:

Dave Portney does this one bite one rule he goes and rates the pizza and we go and we're like, oh, I agree or I disagree. So there is one of these places, posada Pizzeria. It's in Philadelphia County and I Googled it. I do it regularly and I'm looking into not only what the overall review is but what people are saying. Are they saying the steak is top notch? You got to get this pizza. Stay away from this dessert. And you're kind of and you're making those preconceived notions in your head and developing things before we want people exactly.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I even read the one stars just so you get a feel of you know what, what really is going on here. But, and yeah, exactly when you're a consumer, what do you do?

Speaker 3:

people, business and that's the big thing like with our law firm. I think we think we have over a thousand five-star reviews now and I don't knock on wood, it stays this way. We don't get less than five stars and it's because people love the white glove experience that they're getting, but they also love the respect. They like the response. My golden rule that we've instilled in the staff is and which is another KPI, is responsiveness.

Speaker 3:

Our staff members must touch base with a client at least once a month and different clients. There's that TLC level where they want more contact, where they prefer text messages or I don't want to be bothered, unless you have a pressing issue and you want to go or negotiating and things are popping off. I don't want to hear from you and you have to learn those things. So one of the other KPIs with the pre-litigation is that they must make contact every 30 days with the staff member, and that with the client, not a staff member, and they must have at least 95% contact.

Speaker 3:

It's not good enough just to pick up a phone call and attempt. It has to be a verbal conversation and what we've learned from people at the end is hey, you guys really did keep your word. You followed up with me once a month. You answered my questions and it's a two-way street because we're getting how they're feeling and we're getting a nice chart of how the care is progressing. Are they doing better? Are they doing worse? If they're doing worse, we need to get them into another provider or we need to see what the issue is with the provider. But it also helped us focus more so on the cases that very similar to staff members that want to be here and some that it just doesn't work for them clients as well.

Speaker 3:

I'm not saying every person that gets into a motor vehicle crash or has a catastrophic injury from whatever active negligence occurred, that a lawsuit or a personal injury claim is appropriate for that. There's many people who will fall off for whatever reason. They say, hey, I'm feeling better. Those are the best conversations that I have. We do an internal 90-day check. That's just something in addition to those KPIs where I'm getting on the phone with the client and I'm going over everything. I'm saying, hey, this is what our investigation has yielded. We have insurance, your injuries are serious, you have full tort. And they say I'm not really interested in doing this because I feel better. I go. That's one of my favorite conversations because I can only do so much. I can get you in front of the right providers, I can get you a settlement. I can go to trial for you. But if you're feeling better, no amount of money is ever going to change that. There are many people who have gotten billions from settlements in our firm and they would trade all that in just to feel be able to pick up their grandkid again, to go back to work, to feel purpose in life.

Speaker 3:

But rounding off on the last KPI is demand letters, so very similar as much as we are a client first business and I even hate using the word business because it sounds weird, because you would pin a business to a restaurant or an insurance industry, but that's the reality of it. We have to make a profit to remain. We can't do this as much as I would love to do it non-profit, it just doesn't exist and that's the reality. Sure, but with that being said, we have to have demand packages going in. So the staff members of the pre-litigation team must do at least four demand packages. And what's a demand package? Demand package is usually about six to eight months into the treatment of the client. We compose, we order medical records. If there's lost wages, we contact their employer and get those numbers. If there's any out-of-pocket bills, such as co-pays, it's basically a collection of a persuasive writing of diagnostic codes that you present to the insurance company. The insurance company looks at it and the claims handler punches in the numbers of the diagnostic codes and it shoots out a number of a range of stuff. And that also moves cases forward, because not every case is going to get into litigation. We're not sitting here and I'm not spinning a wheel that says all right, who's on deck for the next filing of the case. That only happens many times when it's a higher policy, because the insurance company isn't just writing checks, they're a business too. They're trying to keep the margin small and, like I tell everyone, the insurance company is your best friend until they have to pay you and then it becomes problematic.

Speaker 3:

So, hitting all these KPIs, what we've realized is our staff members. What we've realized is our staff members. We identify who wants to be here. We identify any pitfalls or issues within our own internal setup where, if we need to have less cases or the perfect amount of cases, or if there's too many clients or not enough clients, and then kind of just how to talk with people, how to how to converse, it's not, it's not business.

Speaker 3:

Hey, this is your, this is your doctor's office and you kind of cringe inside. No, this is your law firm. We want to talk to you. We want we're here fighting for you. We want to engage in that. This isn't a fair weather friend who calls sometimes when they need something. We're here because we care and we give a hoot and we're trying to progress your case and we have really had some good results in putting these KPIs in place.

Speaker 3:

The response from the staff members and ultimately, the settlement fees that we're able to achieve. So, in that particular order, the client's happy, the firm members are happy and the business is doing well. All because of these things are popping off all in the same cylinder. So it's a beautiful thing to see those KPIs and it's interesting because I have a lot of other attorney friends that I won't mention that I talk with. We talk about KPIs. What's a KPI? I'm 35. They're like I'm not that old. Is this an acronym? That being said, people that are familiar with the Philadelphia area. I realize that I'm getting older because one of my staff members came in and they go.

Speaker 3:

hey, have you gone to K-pop? What the heck is K-pop? King of Pressure Ball, which I didn't know that, and I worked in Philly for five years. I grew up in the Tri-State area but you talk with other attorneys or KPIs and it's catching fire. It's catching wind. Talk with other attorneys or KPIs and it's catching fire. It's catching wind. And people are realizing that. To move away from that quiet quitting and to really have that white glove service. It's no longer just a hierarchy of manager talking down team members. You're a collective group. You rise together, you fall together. Every time we get something here for disco and sale, as cheesy as it may sound, I go out, talk to the paralegal, I send an email. I said you did a good job.

Speaker 3:

This, this is yours as much as mine. You know what you called it. I don't want to call. I'll talk to them if I have to after. But hey, we didn't get to here. You, you walked, you ran so we can walk, or vice versa, we walked because we can run so we can get to this point.

Speaker 3:

It's a team thing. It's not just like madman. I don't know if you've seen Mad Men on Netflix, one of the episodes where they walk out and they're smoking a cigarette and all of the what they call secretaries are like shuttling underneath their desks because they're worried and positive and negative. But here it's a good time. I'm not saying every day is rainbows and butterflies, but you've got to find that good and you've gotadisco and Salem in the last three to five years with how those KPIs are popping up, how people are achieving them, because I'm happy to report I would say at least 85, 90% of staff members are hitting those KPIs every month and that's just a trick, wow. So it's not like it's just being said to be said and we're having these in place and we're going okay, cross our fingers and hope it works.

Speaker 3:

There is a factual trajectory of it and we have a great system as well called Litify. It's a case management system and all that information is kind of flashed in there as well and we're very transparent. We're very transparent about settlements with our team members. It's not like kind of like Wizard of Oz, where we have this facade of the wizard and there's nothing really going on behind it. It's open. It's open, transparent. We want to talk about these particular things. We want to talk about how the firm is doing. All those numbers are there for you. You're going to see those numbers. You're going to see our fees. You're going to see our costs. We aren't running up costs for just kicks. We're making it fun and it's for the purpose, so it's for a purpose.

Speaker 2:

So all those KPIs kind of work in tandem to really drive the success that we've had here in the last three to five years. That sounds amazing. I think the KPIs are probably sitting on top of some really good SMPs that help you make sure that things happen. That white glove service is what we call world-class experience. That's what's going to get you those reviews and it makes everybody you know working together very, very well, and I love that communication. You know if someone's not doing well at their position or they're just not happy with it, that can be expressed earlier in the year and in address.

Speaker 3:

And we do one of these things too with onboarding. It's called a celebration survey and it's kind of an extra step in this cultural field that we're building at Crisco. We have pillars of what we represent to the community that we will never stop fighting, that a person who's been involved in a negligent action, that we're here through thick and thin, but for us you're only as good as the roots, and the roots here are our team members, not even the employees. At that point, it's our intake team. Our intake team has a great. I can show you We've spent hours on this. It's basically just a. I can always send it over. What this is is an intake team for our intake and what they do is it basically has a step-by-step, without them making you feel comfortable, of making a decision on the case.

Speaker 3:

If an attorney is in a deposition, the statistic of a person calling you as a potential client and you not signing them on that phone call is ridiculous. It's about 20% to 23% that they're going to hang up the phone with you and they're going to call the next person if you don't respond Exactly, if you don't get back to them. I just had it today. We had an intake come at 8 o'clock and I put Meatball, my dog, in the car and I was speaking with a potential client. She's like it's 8.15. Why are you calling me? I said because you're in a time of need. It came through.

Speaker 3:

There's no reason to let this sit until 8.45, 9 o'clock and they were thankful for that because we want to put our team members in a position that they can make a decision and feel accountable, based on what we've given them as the leadership team, and that they can feel comfortable assessing and evaluating the case, because we're humans too. We're attorneys. They're not practicing law. We're not putting that in their hand. What we're doing is we're allowing them to make an intelligent decision, so they're not robots. We don't want robots here. We want compassionate people that care.

Speaker 2:

You also need efficiency. You don't need to get an attorney in on every intake that's the whole point of intake for them to be able to set you up and take the cases and it's in full circle back with the celebration survey of our team members.

Speaker 3:

When our team members are happy, the firm is happy and everybody's doing well and thriving. It's a good place to be. So we do the celebration survey, where basically it's a question and answer of how would you like to be rewarded, and it's interesting to see the different type of responses that we have. We also do something with the. It's a score that tells you how you receive information, but the celebratory survey it gives you. Do you want validation? Do you want extra days off? Are you money voted or are you, if you're not, money voted?

Speaker 3:

If you want validation, do you want extra days off? Do you? Are you money voted or are you, if you're not, money voted? If you want a gift card? I can't tell you how many people and the team members are happy when they get a gift card not just a gift card, but a gift card from a place that they mentioned on the celebration survey, because, as firm leadership team, you're reading and they're not just filling stuff out. How many times have we felt I even had a doctor's office that we fill forms out and they're not appreciated, or they're, or it's almost like why am I doing this?

Speaker 3:

yeah, exactly, surveys. We're giving target gift cards or even just like a random monday I come in a few mondays, I have a few gift cards. I'll hand them out. Like poker weekend was good and and staff members like it, that that five dollar cup of coffee is different for different people. They might have to save a little bit extra or take from here to go here, borrow from Sally to pay Paul, peter, paul, everything else, and that's kind of environment we want to be. We want people to come to the environment. We want to have people celebrating birthdays. I'm not saying you need to be BFFs outside of work, but it's fun and it's exciting to see that the team members and these procedures that we put in place are so well that one of the individuals is having a wedding and she invited everybody from the wedding, everybody from the wedding, and it's just like how cool is that?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, how often does that happen?

Speaker 3:

It's the conversation at the island or in the kitchen. You will never believe what Jack said to Sally today. I hate this place and I'm not saying that we don't have those moments. Everybody has their day and they bring their stressors from home, but I would say nine times out of 10, it's fostering a relationship.

Speaker 3:

And what I tell my staff members and team members is you might not be at Critico on sale for your whole life, but if I can give you information and we can make you happy in those times, I'm not just settling a case for a client. I'm settling a case for a client, but I'm also providing for you and your family as well, because, but for that client, but for that settlement, there's a trickle down and that trickle down is you and your family. It's you leveling, it's you allowing to go on these vacations and we want to pass that on to you. And when you're honest, it's almost such like a duh, a Captain Obvious moment. When you're honest with staff and you actually listen, the leaps and bounds and respect and communication is just transformed. It's almost like you're on Mars and everybody else is on Venus, because the conversations that I have with friends, obviously leaving pertinent information out, I'm like hey my staff member came in today and they said that they want to go to parallel and I said, okay, how much is it?

Speaker 3:

And they were shocked that I asked how much is it? So I can in my head, quantify. Maybe they get a little bit extra. So, as a firm, if we want them to progress and have trajectory through the firm from point A to point C, we can make that available to them because that's the best training Aside from that extra training that you have within the firm. Well, what's best next is paying for that education and it's just the thankfulness and I'm not saying here saying that we're beating our chest because we're just throwing money into people's, just the.

Speaker 3:

It's the simple respect and it goes a long way and you really don't understand it. You hear it thrown around every way, like this the song r-i-s-b-e-c-t. Tell me what it means to me and you can go crazy with it. But when you sit down and you're in your heart or something special, like the leadership team, where what you do in the actions that were, in actions that you choose to take, are impactful to not only your team members but universe as a whole, you kind of see it differently and I always tell people. My dad unexpectedly passed away. I think we're coming up on six years and I was about, I wasn't even in my 30s yet I was like 27, 28. Preface this with team members but also clients that come over is you see the world differently when you lose a family member, especially a profound individual such as a father or a mother, at such a young age that life takes on a kind of different spin. It's not about the fancy cars or how much money you can do. It's just almost like a light goes off in your brain, they hit a button and it's a switch, that in that sadness and darkness you rise out a different person and that person is just wanting to make the place, the world, a better place. I'm not saying that, no, we don't like that, that nice steak dinner or that porterhouse or taking vacations. But you appreciate it. You appreciate the team members that you have. You appreciate, appreciate that your words have consequences and that's what we kind of instill here at Crisco and Sale.

Speaker 3:

We're not just doing things to just get a paycheck. We're not just doing things to just check the boxes and be a robot. We're doing things with a purpose. We're staying hungry and we're giving a hoot, because this is our community. These are people that are hurt that are coming to you in their time of need, they that are hurt that are coming to you in their time of need. They could pick anybody, just like anybody can go to any restaurant they want to get any pizza, or any doctor, any provider. They chose us and that's an honor in and of itself.

Speaker 3:

So one of the first things that all of our team members talk about and attorneys when they get on the phone, they say thank you and people are like, well, why are you thanking me? Because you made a choice. You made a choice to take us on and enlist us and trust us, and that's not something that is easy. It almost pushes the envelope towards being a secret decision that your decision is going to be a positive one or a negative one, and that decision is ultimately going to decide the trajectory of the case and how much a settlement that you get, because there's a person on the other side that cares and we're going to fight. There's been many times, even that settlement, that I say when we're negotiating, push gamble. This is my opinion. It's ultimately your decision.

Speaker 3:

What I tell most people is you're driving this bus, I'm like the this, the the tour guide, pointing out to you and your family member familiar sites along the pre-litigation and litigation. But if you want to stop and get off at any any time, that's not, that's not my decision, that's yours and I love that it works. It makes perfect sense because you're familiar with this town, you're familiar with the processes that go into pre-litigation and litigation and but the client's in control at any point in time. The client wants to fire you If they want to settle, if they have questions. You better know that if you make a right turn there, they're doing construction on that and they're going to be in traffic for a little bit. So you need to preface this to the client. Hey, if you want to make that right, that's fine. We can go whatever way you want to go, but it might get a little bumpy, it might get a little turbulence, might hit, and they appreciate it. It's almost.

Speaker 3:

I never understood sometimes why some attorneys generally just keep information close to their chest. I tell people three things. I talk fast. My mother tells me that I talk fast. So if you need to slow me down, slow me down, especially after caffeine. But second is the biggest thing is is at any point in time that you have a question, I'm going to give you so much information that your head's going to be spinning like that, like I always make it an analogy of the Looney Tunes, when Roadrunner and Coyote are fighting and he bops them on the head and it's the circle and the spin, and then Tweety Bird comes, or whatever it may be. You're going to feel that way and that means I'm doing my job correctly, because you're not questioning what I'm telling you, but you're also on information overload. I would prefer you to say to your friend this attorney gives me information every day. I my head's spinning, rather than I haven't heard from my attorney in about weeks what the heck is going on.

Speaker 2:

And we hear that a lot yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's those mills, it's those, it's those's those bigger firms that I'm not saying they don't do a good job, but you're not going to get that white-glove service that you do with these smaller firms that are picking their cases with purpose. We're not just signing things up to push you through the process If we can't help you. I have about 100 attorneys on my phone that I'm going to. I'm going to do everything I can, and that's another thing that I think that our intake team, what we've instilled and drilled into them, is just because we can't help doesn't mean somebody else can't, and there's plenty to go around in the personal injury field. That's another big thing. Some reason or another, every attorney, some attorneys, not all feel that we can't share. It's that. It's that like only child syndrome, where it's mine, not yours. No, you can't do this right and I thrive on.

Speaker 3:

I've made some really good friends by by linkedin, by just conversations and calls, and saying, hey, we, we can't handle this case where we have a conflict because we represented somebody else and now they're the planet for it. We can't do this case for xyz reason, we're not barred in delaware or whatever. And I find more validation sometimes in finding a home for a case that we that another person would another firm would be we can't handle. Then sometimes the cases that I handle myself, because it's fun and it's interesting to see how these friends develop into referral partners and they'll send us and trust us with cases. And then that friend meets another of my attorney friends and it's almost like I'm on LinkedIn or I'm on Instagram and I see them out. I'm like, oh hey, guys, thanks, I guess my carrier pigeon didn't get the invite. And they're like, oh yeah, we were just kicking it off and I take some of it. I'm just busting your chops.

Speaker 3:

One of the most beautiful things is having a friend or a client meet somebody that they continue a relationship with, whatever it may be outside of your presence, because you made them, you brought their universes together and it's a great thing. We still get text messages and phone calls from attorneys and clients like saying, hey, I'm glad you sent me to this doctor, I sent a friend to that doctor, or not sent them, but suggested this doctor, or this was a really good fit. Or this attorney is saying, hey, I'm glad that we met, I know, I know, sent some pieces to so-and-so as a referral source because they did such a great job. They're coming to my wedding. We're grabbing drinks. It's an amazing process that happens because you listen, because you don't just you don't stop the buck, you push it to the next level and you continue that uncomfortableness.

Speaker 2:

Well, I love, I've loved this conversation.

Speaker 2:

I just, you know, no, I don't think any team member takes a job to fail at it. So, setting them up for success, the KPIs, you know, the SOPs, everything you need to position them to be a great employee and a great team member, I think you guys have done a great job and clearly, across generations, what you're working with is good communication and then so again, the white glove services is something to be, you know, pat yourself on the back for that. You're obviously running a great team and can actually see great team members and then the ones that that are quite as good early enough so that it doesn't damage any relationship. So I'm just excited to hear and it's been a great lesson learning about what you're doing in the firm and the leadership of that. I know that our listeners probably going to want to connect with you at some point and you know, to chat with you, and, especially if they're in the Pennsylvania, new Jersey area, what's the best way for anyone to keep track of you or catch up with you?

Speaker 3:

I try to stay active as much as I can on different things. I tell everybody my cell phone, my cell phone's an open book. If you ever have a question, as simple as it may be, shoot me a text message 609-516-0050. You can call the firm. You can go on LinkedIn, stephen DeBonis. You can follow us on our website. We have a YouTube account. We have a TikTok account. We're kind of all over the place for Disco and Sale just to put ourselves out there. It's more so of trying to reach as many people that we can help as possible within a small frame of space, especially on the internet, where things sometimes go to die and get lost and people even send me an email.

Speaker 3:

Sthebonus at crediscosalecom. I am one of those people that I can't sleep unless all my emails are read. I refuse to have 500 unread emails. So if you send me an email, if you have a question or if you just want to talk and connect, I love the opportunity to meet new people. I always find that each person, like we do with our clients, I try to take a nugget about what makes them.

Speaker 3:

As a person, I played college baseball. I have a client now who is a bowler every Sunday. So our theme of the non-economic damage is that they can't bowl anymore because they broke their wrist and they were a 300 bowler. Wow, they looked forward to this league and the social aspect has been impaired as well and that's like the big theme that we take away of them and it's interesting to always talk. I have friends that I have various names for them Tom Murray I have a godfather of his daughter. He is we call him the father of junior university. Walk off home run, you know, reporter, he is we call him the father of junior university walk off home run.

Speaker 3:

you know, walk off home run. It's on youtube, so it's it's these little pieces of people that I have attorney friends that I've met, that some of them came to my wedding because that's how close we've been. So don't think it's a dumb question. I probably ask questions, more questions, and not every day, to people. I always guide you. Andrew has been one of them where I'll reach out to him sex assault question that I haven't mastered or perfected yet and he's very responsive. He takes the time. Mentoring has been awesome.

Speaker 3:

I love the opportunity that the legal feed up field and just the field in general of the law is a really loving place If you connect with the right people because they just want to see you do well. I think it's a very green flag of this particular industry is people who want to see you do well and weren't upset that they're not getting clients or not upset that you're not sending them. They just want to see and hear that you're doing well and it's awesome. It's a very you rub my back, I rub yours and we're working together and we're doing and we're thriving. It's just a great thing to be a part of and it's exhausting. It's a very you rub my back, I rub yours, and we're working together. We're doing it, we're thriving.

Speaker 3:

It's just a great thing to be a part of and it's exhausting. It's exhausting at times, but it's so freaking rewarding that it's just fun. Like how else would I have connected with you? And it's these little things like this of going outside your comfort zone. But also, if people are taking the time to listen, it's because they care and it's that they want it and they want to educate themselves and and just like the conversation we're having. I'm sure that there's there's many things that KPIs that you're learning, but I've also learned a lot from you in the limited conversations that we've had about do this rather than that, or try this rather than that, and and like it's that puzzle thing and it's a beautiful thing and it's just a lot of fun. It's just can't get off my soapbox and keep talking, that's everyone who listens.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, you've got a great process. I really, really enjoyed talking about it and I know our audience is going to take away from it, so I will make sure that all of your links and your emails in the show notes and thank you so much for being here. This has been a really great conversation. I know people are going to take away a lot of information from it.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate it and I'm always, I'm always happy to come back on in a year or so, you know, any more KPIs we've added or how things have changed. We're getting ready to move into our, our new office, new offices, to have some cool stuff for the staff as well, such as like Celsius energy drinks and snacks. And it's. You won't see me dragging, that's all I'm going to say. I'm going to be caffeinated out of the wazoo, so we're going to be firing all the cylinders for anybody who may need our services.

Speaker 2:

But it's going to be an exciting time, Fantastic Well. Again, thank you so much for your time today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much for having me Look forward to being back.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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