Leadership In Law Podcast

25 Being the First Generation and Giving Back with René Jovel

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 25

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Imagine the power of colorful ties and shoes as more than just a wardrobe choice but a tool for connection and confidence. That's just one of the insights shared by René Jovel, our guest for this week's inspiring episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. René, Deputy General Counsel and Director of Legal Operations at Goodwill Industries of Southeastern Wisconsin opens up about his journey from the challenges faced by his immigrant parents to his path through prestigious institutions like Northwestern and Marquette Law School. His story is one of resilience, passion, and a relentless commitment to advocacy and diversity in the legal field.

As we navigate the complexities of being a first-generation professional, René and I discuss the importance of authenticity in a demanding career. Drawing from personal experiences, we highlight how embracing individuality through something as simple as fashion choices can spark meaningful conversations and ease social anxieties. The podcast also touches on the value of community recognition, illustrating how awards and acknowledgment can support and energize grassroots efforts and personal growth. From air quality initiatives during forest fires to arts programs, we shine a light on how small acts can lead to significant change.

On the road to building a successful legal practice, we provide actionable insights for those aspiring to own a law firm. Our conversation extends beyond the narrative of one individual, offering a treasure trove of strategies from industry experts and firm leaders. Whether you're a seasoned attorney or just starting, this episode equips you with the tools and inspiration to grow your practice, foster a thriving team, and make a lasting impact in your community. Join us as we continue to connect with remarkable individuals like René Jovel, who are transforming their communities and the legal landscape.

Reach René here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ren%C3%A9-jovel-a804632a/

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Hi everyone and thank you for joining me for another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins, and I'd like you to help me welcome my guest today, renee Jovel, to the show. Renee is the Deputy General Counsel and Director of Legal Operations at Goodwill Industries of Southeastern Wisconsin, a role he's held since August 2017. Since August 2017. He's deeply committed to fostering inclusive workplaces and ensure a legal compliance supports Goodwill's mission of helping individuals find employment despite barriers.

Speaker 2:

Rene serves on the selection committee for the Milwaukee Awards for Neighborhood Development and is a board, member of both the Wisconsin chapter of the Association of Corporate Council and CORE El Centro, a non-profit offering affordable wellness services in both Spanish and English. In recognition for his work, rene was named a top corporate counsel by Milwaukee Business Journal in 2022 and was selected as one of Milwaukee's 36 most influential Latino leaders of 2024. He continues to be an advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion. He continues to be an advocate for diversity, equity and inclusion, drawing on his experience as a first-generation Latino lawyer to support and uplift underrepresented communities. I'm excited to have you here, rene. Thank you.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm excited as well. All right, much appreciated.

Speaker 2:

Of course, hey, tell us how you got started.

Speaker 3:

I mean it's super impressive the things that you've done and how you've been recognized for your work. Tell us a bit about how you got started. I mean it's super impressive the things that you've done and how you've been recognized for your work. Tell us a bit about how you got started. Yeah, no, again, appreciate you having me and and very excited to talk to you. So it's a it's kind of a a bit of a long process or journey. I should say I'd have to take you for back to when my parents came here, but I'll try to, I'll try to breeze through it as best as I can. So my parents came here in the 80s from El Salvador. During the Civil War. They came here, moved here and when they were here originally in LA, as they tried to figure out the immigration process, they couldn't really find any Spanish speaking attorneys, couldn't really find anyone, and they went to someone who they thought was an attorney my parents were not together at the time, but they each sort of had a similar story Went to someone who they thought was an attorney, actually was a scam, so they put a lot of money into it and then there was no benefit from it. So they were in limbo. President Reagan passed amnesty and because of that they were able to eventually get legal permanent status in the country.

Speaker 3:

As I tell my students when they ask me why I went to law school, I always say you don't need like a hero origin story to go to law school. But for me, that's always been in the back of my mind growing up. There weren't, you know, we talk about representation matters and for them that was very literal right. They couldn't find someone that spoke their language. They couldn't find someone who they thought was there to help them. So for me that's always been there. So that took me to undergrad. So I went to Northwestern for undergrad and in between there and thinking about law school, I was trying to figure out well, do I want to go to law school? I do. But I was trying to figure out well, do I want to go to law school? I do, but I also want to figure out what this stuff is.

Speaker 3:

So I went and worked for an immigration law firm in Chicago, enjoyed my time there, solidified why I wanted to do the work that I wanted to do, and then went to Marquette Law School out in Milwaukee and during my time there again, I was trying to figure out the what can I do to help scenario. So I worked, I clerked at a local hospital and they're in their legal department. I did some work at the public defender's office and then, right before I graduated, I ended up working for Senator Tammy Baldwin, a US Senator out here in Wisconsin, mainly doing Department of Labor, department of Homeland Security, department of State work A lot of. If you've ever watched Trapped Abroad on National Geographic, that's kind of the bit of the work that I was doing. And I was doing work for her for around three and a half years but really wanted to continue using my law degree for help because I wanted to help.

Speaker 3:

So between then this job opened up at Goodwill and Goodwill has sort of always been there, even when I was growing up and we didn't have much growing up. That's where I would get my clothes, that's where family members would go and get assistance, to just find work. So it seems perfect for me to continue this journey of trying to help and that's how I landed at Goodwill and I've been there seven years this past August and it's been fantastic. It's been an absolute wild ride. No day was the same. But that's the very short version of how I got here.

Speaker 2:

It's very interesting. I know that we've talked to other attorneys about you know when they niche down what made them decide to do that, and it seems interesting that you went from immigration to clerking all these different positions and then you found a corporation that held all the values that you were looking for. So, instead of hanging out your own shield, you're in a council now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and it's one of those where in-house work is you hear a little bit about it in law school, for sure, and I'm thankful that I was able to do a clerkship at a hospital, because that was my first taste of in-house work, where I was able to see the variety of work that I could do and the variety of ways that I could help while working for a company Just ended up happening that I ended up working for a place like Goodwill, and it just fit perfectly.

Speaker 2:

Wow, and then, and that allows you to also teach.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, fortunately, you know, we're at Goodwill. We're all about work-life balance and life can also be more work, in this instance being a teacher. And you know, one of the things that I enjoyed when I was at Senator Baldwin's was every quarter I would get a new batch of interns. And I really enjoyed the batch of interns that I got. I didn't want them to be the oh, you're just making copies or you're just answering phones. I wanted them to leave with something and I always try to find a way to teach them.

Speaker 3:

And that was sort of my first taste at teaching something to someone. And from that I said well, you know, I don't consider myself a teaching expert by any means, but there's some stuff that I could do here to try and help and hopefully influence or teach the new generation of professionals, whether it's at the undergrad or law school, and I've been fortunate enough to be able to teach both. At the law school I've done contract drafting and then at the Marquette undergrad to teach international law and then legal writing and analysis Two completely different types of courses but, I think, very, very important for where we are in today's landscape.

Speaker 2:

Very cool and I think it's interesting having a new batch of interns every quarter, so it was just kept. You constantly had new things or new people to work with.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely it was. You know, we would occasionally have a few of them that stuck around, but if they remained with us they would go to a different person in the office so that they could get a variety of different things. Because the way our office broke it up is we broke up our work by different departments or different federal agencies. So for me, yeah, every three to four months I would get someone new, and they all came with a variety of experiences. I remember I had to teach someone what a fax machine was, because they had never heard or didn't even know what a fax machine was. So it was, the gamut of what I was teaching was very wide.

Speaker 2:

Wow. Well, I guess this generation doesn't know about fax machines and most of us wish we didn't.

Speaker 3:

Not wrong, not wrong.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so well, that's excellent. So let's talk about you being the first generation professional experience.

Speaker 3:

That's exciting, and I mean I'm sure your mom is incredibly proud of that living, doing some version of the American dream, right, that we, that we hear about. You know, my parents came here because there was a war in their, in their home country and try to figure things out that were, you know, here in the States. And for me it's, it's I continue to be the first of something, but hopefully not the last of something. That's what I like to say. You know, first, first high school grad, first college grad, and then first first attorney and first homeowner, I would also say, you know, so it's, it's hopefully the first and not the last.

Speaker 3:

And and for me, you know, it's what I find interesting too, is for my students, when I talk about being a first generation professional, it's interesting that there are a lot of first generation professionals, that it's like a venn diagram, right, it's. For me it's. I'm a first generation professional because I'm a, I'm a son of immigrants, but we have first generation professionals and and kids that I teach and that have gone to law school, where they've always, you know, their family has has been here. They just have never had anyone that's had the opportunity to go to either high school or college or even get a law degree or a doctor or anything like that.

Speaker 2:

So I, I, I enjoy being able to find that common ground with them and be able to chat with them as a first generation professional, both with what I learned and what they're going through, because we we experienced very similar things, very, very different things, and it's fascinating to me it's always interesting to compare notes, right, I mean, that's kind of yeah, what we, what I feel like here is I, like you know, attorneys, like to hear everybody other people's stories, you know yeah, yeah you came from and that sort of thing, and and the other thing that you pointed out to me and I wanted to touch on and see if you could elaborate on is staying true to yourself, you know, so that you know that can be give you strength and personal and professional. So can you elaborate on how you felt you did that, as you know your career so far?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know it's I always like to you know. Everyone says you know, remember your roots, remember where you came from. But I think that also extends to remember who you are, because for me, both at Senator Baldwin's and even at the work here that I do here, it can be very stressful, right, and it can be like I'm sure all law jobs are right or any job out there right. I'm blessed that I'm not. You know, when I say stressful, I'm not a first responder, right, or armed forces or anything like that, so I'm very blessed in that sense. But it can be stressful. So it's sometimes when you get a few seconds to breathe or a few seconds to just pause. It's good to sort of have an anchor there, and for me it's trying to continue being my own person and continue having my own personality in a profession that, for lack of a better term, sometimes feels a bit stuffy. Right, when you're an attorney, it can feel a bit stuffy.

Speaker 3:

So you know, I have a day of the dead tie on right now I like wearing. You know, one of my guilty pleasures is lucha libre and professional wrestling, and if I can wear a dress, shirt or a tie with with something like that I'll do it, cause it's again sometimes if, if I'm, you know, with my head down doing work and I can take a look at my shirt or my tie, it'll bring me some some joy and I think it'll do it to someone else as well. And I try to do that with with my shoes, with my pins, with my ribbons, if I go to go to a conference, because I think it, when I think about that whole representation matters thing. Sometimes it's not even just you know, I happen to be a Latino first professional it can be anything else, right, it can be shoes, it can be a shirt, it can be wrestling, it can be a baseball team, it can be a variety of things.

Speaker 3:

And that's how I try to be true to myself in that sense. But also I try to make sure that I do something with intentionality and that I'm not just sort of along for the ride. So if I'm in a meeting or if we're having heavy, intense discussions at work, whether you like it or not, I'm going to make my voice heard because I'm here to do something. Right. There's got to be a purpose, otherwise there's no reason for me to be here and obviously listen to what folks bring, but I try to be myself in whatever way I can, whether it's by what I bring to a meeting, with what I say or with what I'm wearing.

Speaker 2:

I love it. I love it. There's always the guy with the crazy ties or crazy socks, right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, it does. And you know I I try to. You know I've been on this mental health journey for the last few years of trying to figure out what that is social anxiety, because I'm fine with the conversation once it gets going, but it's that beginning part, right. That's always a bit tricky. And and my therapist you know, one day I was in there and she's like well, you have very colorful shoes on, like why don't you just make that your sort of unofficial icebreaker, because people are going to notice that? And then you have something and that's yeah, I love that. Once. I found that the click was excellent. It. It's made it a ton way way easier to interact I think you're right.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it's the entering that like I used to do a lot of chamber of commerce meetings and you know those first. When you first join a chamber, before you get to know everybody, it's always you. You know just that stressful walking into the meeting, whether it's a breakfast or social or something like that. It's always tough. I love the idea about the shoes or the tie using that as an icebreaker.

Speaker 3:

Yeah yeah, yeah, try to. It makes it something easy. And then I see it on someone else, right? If I see someone with nice shoes or nice dress, purse, bag, whatever it is right, I can say, well, I have something and you have something. I think we have at least a very easy three-minute icebreaker here that we can go into.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, exactly. Well, let's talk about the awards that you, the Neighborhood Awards, tell us a bit about that. I mean that sounds kind of interesting, the Mandis, yeah, so the Neighborhood Awards.

Speaker 3:

Tell us a bit about that. I mean that sounds kind of interesting. The Mandis, yeah. So the Neighborhood Awards are really, really cool. So it's this organization here in Milwaukee, where Milwaukee is made up of a variety of different neighborhoods, like I'm sure a lot of other cities in the US are.

Speaker 3:

But what we try to do is we try to find organizations that have either been around a while or just starting out and need recognition, but not just deserve recognition. So what we do is we put out a call, and there are a variety of different categories, so they can be either from an innovative use of public space to an innovative arts program, to a single person that is doing something in their community that needs to be recognized. So we get hundreds of applications. They are then reduced down to around five or six. First we get them all in writing or video and then we review them and then we go out and it's my favorite favorite part we then go and interact with these individuals and see the projects live and see what's going on. What I love about these is that at at the end of the process, we have a large award ceremony and obviously the winner gets the award and the larger video package, but we also make sure that we talk about all of the projects that are there, because, even because some of these projects are just getting started and they just haven't been around long enough or aren't potentially sophisticated enough yet and are still figuring out some of the growing pains to get to a point where they can be a winner, but we want people to know about them so that they use them.

Speaker 3:

An example of this is, you know, last year and I mean it's been every year, but last year we had there were a lot of fires, right, forest fires both out West but also in Canada, and the winds were brutal coming into Wisconsin. Everyone saw the images out of Chicago. If it's happening in Chicago, it's probably happening in Milwaukee, right? So the sun would come. You couldn't see it behind this giant haze and there was this gentleman who had just started and he had gone around by himself to different both weather stations being used by news agencies but also just amateur weather enthusiasts in Milwaukee and was trying to build a air health quality index that you could open it up.

Speaker 3:

Go on your app so that you could see and it was this nomination had come in well before the fires had even occurred and he just had a lot of growing pains. Well before the fires had even occurred and he just had a lot of growing pains. But because he had been nominated and we had talked about this award, all of a sudden he has a bunch of other folks that want to help him, because now it's very topical, so it's it's. It's an awesome way for me to get out and talk to the community but also see the people that that are doing great work, and then you also get to spread the news of these awesome organizations out there that that are doing great work in the city. Wow, that's great. I love it.

Speaker 2:

That sounds great. It's very interesting that you know you, you, we. Our first conversation was about you know the, the first generation professional, but it sounds like you from a child. You wanted to help people.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You knew the struggle that your parents went through and it seems like, with all the things, you've got irons in a lot of fires that you are helping people in many different levels and many different areas.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

If you're thinking about the people listening to this podcast, what would be the one important thing you want them to take away from this episode?

Speaker 3:

You know, I think that for me, it's help doesn't have to be well. Help can be a variety of things, right, and help doesn't have to be this giant, monumental thing that you have to do, right. What I hear, either from talking to community members or even my students they feel like they are just one person and they can't do anything because they can't donate or they don't have the time or anything but start small. The smallest thing is going to go the longest way and I think that's the biggest thing. And and there are a variety of organizations and a variety of people that need assistance and that need help right.

Speaker 3:

Whether it's you volunteer for a few hours at a food shelter or you go through your own, your own pantry and you see a few cans and you take that right on your way to work or something, the smallest thing can go a long way. And what's what's great and I always say this, you know, if you want to think about it selfishly, I have never felt bad after helping. I have always felt better. So if you need something that is for you right and that's going to get you over over that hump, providing help is always fantastic, it always helps and and we live in a day and age now where you can go on Facebook, Reddit, you know Twitter X, whatever you want to call it, and you can find, you know, local orgs that are looking for help right, that are that need volunteers.

Speaker 2:

Exactly. I mean through your chamber of commerce, your local BNI. You know your network, you can find someone. I agree At the end you know you've got your network, you've got your associations, you're helping with the volunteer stuff you're doing and you know people do business, who good people do business with good people. You know you help other people. It all comes back around and but it is that outlet of being able to give back and feel good about it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and you always. I love learning. You always learn stuff and then you can use some of that right. It always feels fantastic, that's great.

Speaker 2:

This has been very interesting. I loved hearing your journey and what you're doing now and how you're helping so many people. I hope you continue to do all of those great things and then helping, of course, with the diversity and what you do with Goodwill. If any of our listeners wanted to follow up with you, connect with you, how would be the best way to do that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, honestly, I think the best way is via my LinkedIn. I use that thing a ton. You may want to mute your notifications if you follow me, because I'm usually posting something, or you know my wife will tell me that I pop up on her newsfeed because I'm just liking and commenting on stuff. So, LinkedIn, if you're, if you're shooting a message in LinkedIn, I'm going to read it. So I'll, I'll definitely read it. So LinkedIn absolutely is the way to go.

Speaker 2:

Perfect. I'll make sure that we have that in the show notes. So this has been this has been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed learning about you and about your, your story, and I hope people will reach out to you and chat with you about what you've got going on and take a leaf out of your book and help people.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. No, absolutely. I thank you so much for having me. If your listeners have any questions about first gens helping where to find cool t-shirts, cool shoes, whatever y'all need let me know. Absolutely happy to help great. Thank you so much thank you have a good one thanks for joining me today for this episode.

Speaker 2:

As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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