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Leadership In Law: Growth & Leadership for Law Firm Owners
Leadership In Law™ is the podcast for law firm owners, managing partners, and attorneys who want to build stronger firms and become better leaders.
Hosted by Marilyn Jenkins, founder of Law Marketing Zone® and a digital growth strategist for law firms, each episode brings practical conversations with accomplished attorneys, law firm leaders, and industry experts.
We explore law firm growth, leadership, marketing, AI and legal technology, hiring, culture, client experience, communication, operations, profitability, business development, and the future of legal practice.
If you're building a law firm that can grow without depending on you for every decision, Leadership In Law™ gives you practical ideas, real-world lessons, and proven strategies you can put to work in your firm.
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Leadership In Law: Growth & Leadership for Law Firm Owners
Become a Wealthy Woman Lawyer with Davina Frederick
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What if you could transform your general law practice into a thriving specialized firm? Join me, Marilyn Jenkins, as I explore this possibility with our insightful guest, Davina Frederick. A Florida-licensed attorney turned business coach, Davina shares her extraordinary journey from journalism and marketing to founding Wealthy Woman Lawyer. Her story will inspire you to reflect on your career path and consider how aligning with your true passion can lead to both personal fulfillment and professional success. With her experience and dedication, Davina offers a unique perspective on empowering women law firm owners to achieve their business goals.
Listeners will learn the secrets of law firm growth, as we discuss the importance of building robust systems and processes. Davina shares her expertise on how niching down and leveraging coaching can transform a struggling practice into a successful enterprise. With her guidance, we tackle common misconceptions about law firm systems and automation and outline the seven critical systems needed to scale effectively. You'll discover strategies for systematizing operations, such as timely invoicing and documenting procedures, and learn how technology can enhance efficiency and scalability in your firm.
Our conversation also highlights the empowerment of women law firm owners by shifting focus from daily legal tasks to strategic business leadership. Davina provides practical advice on balancing content creation with attention to detail, emphasizing the importance of role definition and delegation. As we close, I extend an invitation to join the Leadership in Law community, where resources and connections await those eager to advance their firm's growth. Stay informed and inspired with our podcast and explore opportunities for strategic guidance that can lead to law firm success.
Reach Davina here:
https://www.wealthywomanlawyer.com
Free Training: https://wealthywomanlawyer.com/build-wealth-generating/
Davina's book: https://amzn.to/4ekwiPi
Season 1 Episode 29
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Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
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Law Leadership Podcast With Davina Frederick
Speaker 1Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins . Cut through the noise , get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership . In each episode , we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you , from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team . We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom . So , whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner , the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice .
Speaker 2Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast . I'm your host , marilyn Jenkins . Please join me in welcoming my guest , davina Frederick , to the show today .
Speaker 2Davina is a Florida licensed attorney , law firm growth strategist and business coach for women law firm owners .
Speaker 2She is the founder and CEO of Wealthy Woman Lawyer , a strategic growth planning and coaching company that helps women law firm owners scale their law firm businesses to and through a million dollars with total ease . She is the founder also the founder of Wealthy Woman Lawyer League , a community and program designed to support women law firm owners who want to scale from solo to CEO of a thriving law firm business , and she's also the host of Wealthy Woman Lawyer podcast and the top podcast for women in law in the US , and a two-time author of books on law firm management and marketing . Her quest to learn all that she could about creating and scaling a law firm business that would not leave her burnout , overwhelmed and overworked led her to discover the impact a good business coach could have on a business . For the past nine almost 10 years , she's devoted her time to helping other women law firm owners create their own wealth-generating law firm business . I'm excited to have you here , davina , welcome . Thank you , marilyn , I'm excited to be here .
Speaker 2Absolutely so . Tell us a little bit about how you got started .
Speaker 3Oh well , my career journey is a long one because I went to undergrad and got a degree in journalism and I thought I was going to be a journalist that traveled the world and reported from all over the world , which is kind of funny , if you know me , because I get motion sick if I walk too fast , so the idea of me on some bumpy plane in Madagascar or something is kind of ridiculous . But I wound up getting married to my first husband and that meant we were kind of staying where we were and there weren't a lot of opportunities for journalists where I lived . So I got into marketing . I'm a professional copywriter and worked for years in the marketing field , working to market professional service businesses , including law firms . And then I got an opportunity about 15 years in to go to law school , which I did , and I became an attorney and I was sworn in in 2007 . And I opened my own law firm right out of law school and I did it . I actually went to law school for the purpose of opening my own law firm , which is a little bit different than what a lot of people do . A lot of people get out and they can't find a job , so they start own law firm , which is a little bit different than what a lot of people do . A lot of people get out and they can't find a job , so they start their law firm , and I really intended to do that right from the beginning .
Speaker 3I was about 42 at the time , I had a lot of business experience , so I thought , and so I opened my own law firm and I grew it successfully not without a hardship , not without hard choices and difficult decisions , but I grew it successfully . And I grew it successfully not without a hardship , not without hard choices and difficult decisions , but I grew it successfully . And I brought in a friend from law school . She became my partner and we were doing really , really well . And then I had some things happen in my personal life that caused me to just reflect on what I was doing and how much I was working and the effect that it was having on me , both emotionally , mentally and physically , and so I decided to take a step back and I did that for about a year working in . My husband and I owned a gym , and so I worked in the gym as a trainer and helper on the gym and really thought about what it is I wanted to do and what I wanted to do was . So I started a second law firm and I did it virtually . This was in 2011 , before anybody was really doing virtual . It wasn't really a thing . So my idea of virtual was email and phone calls and my clients loved it . I was told by certain people that my clients would not like that , but in fact , my clients did love that , because I did estate planning and I worked with a lot of elderly people who didn't want to drive to an office , and so it worked out very well .
Speaker 3And then I also discovered coaching . I got , I was invited to a big coaching conference and I went and I was kind of blown away by it . I was swept up in it , obviously , as one is at big coaching conferences and I went and I was kind of blown away by it . I was swept up in it , obviously , as one is at big coaching conferences where they've got they keep you up all hours of the night and they play the loud music . Then they get you in a sales conversation and you're like , yes , I have to have this .
Speaker 3So I did that and my first coaching experience wasn't exactly what I thought it would be , but I did get something really valuable out of it .
Speaker 3And one of the things I got out of it was I was introduced to the coaching world and I love the idea of being able to help people and not be in an adversarial role all day like I was as a lawyer doing real estate litigation and divorce and things like that .
Speaker 3So I started digging more and more into business strategy and I realized I really had a gift for business strategy for service-based businesses because I'd had so much experience working with service-based businesses and I kind of wanted to combine that sort of marketing experience I had in growing businesses plus the experience I had in having my own businesses and the mistakes I made and sort of help other people not make those same mistakes . And when I first started out I was really working with professional services businesses of different kinds , right . But over time I just found that a lot of my clients were other women lawyers who wanted to have their own law firm and grow their own law firm . They saw what I had done . They wanted to know the scoop and so I really kind of narrowed that niche down and began to focus just on women law firm owners and I've been doing that now for 11 years and I absolutely love it , absolutely love it Fantastic .
Speaker 2That's amazing . That's amazing . It's an interesting journey , but I agree with you about bringing you know having a coach it makes a massive difference to help keep you lined up to your goals and and just determine your goals . It has been a very big part of my business .
Speaker 3So I've had multiple coaches and that was one thing I've learned is that you may you know , my first coaching experience was this large sort of coaching company like like BC , and then my second coach was a private coach and she was very much . She helped me so much with my mindset around money and my money story and my beliefs about money and and really examining kind of the money stories I grew up with and how that was impacting me today . But one thing that I didn't get from her I wanted was kind of a more systematic approach to growing a business and I hired another private coach and I was with him for a couple of years and he really helped me sort of with the systems part of business Right . So I do think it's wonderful to be able to you know each one of those coaching experiences I would say there was some disappointment and there was also some great things that came out of it .
Speaker 3And I think that's one of the things that a lot of people don't think of when they think of coaching . They think , oh well , I paid this money , I expect it to solve all my problems and by the end of it it's all going to be hearts and rainbows , and really that's not what coaching is . Coaching is you're going to learn some , you're going to have different perspective , a different mindset on your problems and other people's brains on your problems , and you're going to see tremendous progress and improvement . And in the life of a business owner , there's always going to be something that you're going to be needing , You're going to be new at and you're going to be learning and you're going to be doing so . It's not going to be to be all end , all for everything , but I will tell you in my experience in being coach and coaching that I've seen some people's lives absolutely transformed , including my own absolutely transformed , by working with good coaches .
Speaker 2I absolutely agree . You know a coach to me . My coach actually says you can't see the full picture if you're in the frame , right , so you need that other . You know , yeah , you need that , I love that and it just rings a bell , right ? But I agree , as far as you know , not nothing , you won't get everything from one coach , because you're not the same person two years into your business that you were when you first started , years into your business that you were when you first started and you're not going to be the same person in your four , five and six . So it's , you know , like you said , bigger businesses , bigger problems , bigger issues to tackle and you become a different person , right ?
Speaker 3absolutely it's I .
Speaker 3I think that's what a lot of people don't really understand about coaching too , especially like when you think of business coaching .
Speaker 3You think I'm going to be coached on how to run my business , but you don't really understand until you're in it and you're experiencing it that really what's happening is the transformation is happening within you and you are becoming a different person , like you said , and so , as you have , if I always tell my clients , if I handed you the keys to a million dollar business today and I said here , here , go run it , you would be freaking out , you would not know how to do it , you would not know where to start , you would be not sleeping , not eating because , or overeating like I do when I get stressed because you just wouldn't know what to do .
Speaker 3And I and the reason why is because your coaching experience is about helping you transform into the person that can lead a million dollar business . So if you're at low six figures , you've got to become that person , and that takes time and it takes effort and takes education . It takes a lot of things right to help you make that . It takes an open mind to help you make that transformation to become that person .
Speaker 3And the same thing Once you're a million-dollar business owner , it takes more time and more education and more transformation for you to be a multi-million-dollar owner and an eight-figure
Building Systems for Law Firm Growth
Speaker 3owner . Right , it's very different at each stage of the journey and so I think I think with coaching it's the same kind of thing . I mean , I don't , I don't coach eight , eight figure law firm owners because I that I have not experienced as an eight year law firm .
Speaker 2And I think that's important as well Get a coach that's that's been past where you are , but and that's where the seasonality comes right you can work with that person until you reach that point and then , if they're not serving you at that level again , then they've done their job , they've helped you grow and now it's time for you to find someone else to take you to the next level .
Speaker 3Yeah , exactly .
Speaker 2I find it interesting . You're talking about niching down and I've talked with attorneys that niche down right out of law school and others that didn't niche down for years . How do you , what do you think about a niching down and to actually grow ?
Speaker 3your firm . Well , it's interesting because when I started out , I did door law , anything that came through the door . That's what I did I because I didn't know . I didn't know what I wanted to do . I didn't know I'm I'm a Gemini . I have very wide , varied interest as far as my personality and what would be satisfying to me . So I had multiple different took on multiple different practice areas and some I very quickly realized were not for me and some I was like , oh , I kind of like this when , eventually , when I started my second firm , I really focused on estate planning and the reason I did is because I found that I really enjoyed it . I really it served my lifestyle well that I wanted . I knew I didn't want to be in an adversarial position every day in court like I had been . So I discovered a lot about myself by experimenting . So I don't think there's anything wrong with experimenting .
Speaker 3I , when I I had my second firm and I was growing it , I was growing this coaching business at the same time and I eventually let the law firm go because I was still learning how to be an excellent estate planning attorney . I was still learning how to be an excellent coach and I felt that I needed to really focus , that if I didn't focus on one or the other and this is a curse that entrepreneurs have is we have so many ideas and so many things we could do and it's really tempting to say I'm going to do this , I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this . But if you really want to be successful , laser focus is your friend . And so I sort of stepped back from the law firm because I was afraid the more knowledgeable I became , the more I realized I didn't know what . I didn't know Right , and I said I'm going to screw up if I keep trying to divide my time between this sort of estate planning and growing this coaching business . So I stepped back from that and continued on this path and , and with regard to this coaching business , I was , you know , my business is D Frederick Media Marketing . That's my underlying business and because we do , you know , media marketing services and as we have some of those in our business but that's how I started out was kind of like that focus . And then I rebranded about four years ago to Wealthy Woman Lawyer . So the business is still the business . I have a brand we woman lawyer and the reason I did that is because nobody knows what defrauded media marketing is .
Speaker 3My client and I noticed I started having competition come into play in the coaching world . There wasn't that much for lawyers when I started , especially for women lawyers , and I started noticing they were using law in their name and everything and I said , well , I really need to put out in the name of my business who I'm targeting . So then it's like cocktail party syndrome . If you've ever been to a cocktail party and you're sitting there drinking and suddenly you hear your name , somebody speaks your name , you automatically turn around and go . That's for me and that's what I wanted in the name of the business . So that's why I sort of narrowed the focus and I rebranded to Wealthy Woman Lawyer because I really wanted to attract those lawyers who wanted to build wealth and do it by using their law firm as a vehicle to help them build wealth .
Speaker 2Wow , wow , fantastic . So they're niching down , but yeah , I do . I love your brand . It made it so clear . You're right , it is exactly what you do and your ideal client can read it and go . That's me .
Speaker 3Right , exactly , exactly .
Speaker 2Let's pivot a little bit and talk about systems . So you're helping people get their business together and again , like we talked about , lawyers don't ? They don't take business classes . So you need to find the seven . You know , like you say , the seven essential systems that a law firm needs to scale to seven . They use them beyond . Can we talk about that a little bit ?
Speaker 3Yes , absolutely . So I wrote a book about the seven essential systems . That's one of my books on law firm management and in that book which I had done and I think so many times when we hear , when you hear a lot of lawyers will post on social media , I need systems , or they'll tell me when they meet with me I need systems , and they don't really have a clear definition of what that is Right , and often people conflate systems with automation . When they hear I need systems , they think I need , I need a case management system . Right , I need this automated tool . And I really wanted to pull back on that and show a bigger vision about what systems it takes to run a law firm business . We think it just takes the system , the case management system , to do the work of the business system , the case management system , to do the work of the business , and my opinion is that there are seven essential systems . We need to think about the buyer's journey , so our client's journey and experiencing our law firm from the very first thing they see about us in an ad or social media or referral or whatever it is , all the way through their journey to where they are no longer a client but they are a referral source and so , doing that , I started pulling back on that and saying , okay , what are the essential systems ? And I identified seven .
Speaker 3The first system is really about your visibility in the world , your marketing , and that is your client attraction . So what system do I need to have in place to attract clients right ? One system people use is they go out , not really a system they go out and they network and they follow up , they network , they follow up . It's one-on-one kind of thing . There are many different ways that you could attract ideal clients . We can do one-to-many , we can do public speaking . We can do what we're doing here on a podcast . We can post on social media . There's all kinds of ways we can run ads . We can build funnels . There's all kinds of ways that we can attract our ideal client . But I think it is very important that you take a systematic approach to that . Instead of this sort of throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks , you develop a system that will consistently generate the kind of clients that you want to work with .
Speaker 4Right .
Speaker 3So you really want to identify who that ideal client is for you , where they hang out , how we can get in front of them , what's our message , and develop a systematic approach so that phone rings when you're off in court or that phone rings when you're on vacation in Mexico right , Because you have a systematic approach to it . And that approach might involve people and it might involve automation right . But you have to think through what process do I want to follow to get those new clients ? And then the second one is intake and onboarding , which we need a systematic approach to intake and onboarding when you're first starting out your approach to intake and onboarding . When you're first starting out your approach to intake and onboarding , maybe I had a conversation , I signed them up , I had to sign the agreement , I collected the money and then we're off to the races . But as you grow your firm and you get larger , you need to think about how other people and how automation can come into play . And thank goodness we have some really terrific automation tools now to help with intake and onboarding and getting those clients signed up quickly and educated on what it's like to work with us through our welcome messages and things like that , and really getting them involved in our law firm very quickly .
Speaker 3And then the next piece is the service and fulfillment . The service and fulfillment is what we lawyers think of when we think of systems . We think the workflows to actually get the cases done , and thank goodness there are wonderful case management tools out there and other tools that we can use that really make that much easier than it used to be when everything was done by hand , Right . But there's the service piece that I think a lot of people miss out on of that service and fulfillment system , and that is how am I making sure that the client has a high touch experience without me being the one to have to do the touching right ? How can I wrap high sir , high level service into their experience with my law firm and what systems can I put in place to make that happen ? So that's that system .
Speaker 3And then the last system of what I call the external systems , the client facing system , is the client offboarding , and that is how do we offboard them in a way that's going to garner reviews and referrals , right , Five-star reviews and referrals . And then I think there are three . So that's four external client facing systems . And then I think that there are three internal systems that every business has to have . We have to have people management . In the HR world . The human resources is different than people management , but I I like the term people management In the HR world . Hr and human resources is about compliance issues .
Speaker 3Right and policy manual , following the rules of the government with regard to how we treat employees and stuff like that . People management is usually about wellness and things like that in larger corporations , but I call people management for this system . We need some systematic approach to hiring people , to recruiting people .
Speaker 3Nowadays , and so it's a real challenge to recruit in the legal field , to onboarding them , to training them to termination , to what we do when somebody leaves . I mean we need culture , we need all kinds of systems in that people management . And then the next internal system is we need technology management . Technology management is how do we make decisions about the type of technology tools that we are going to use ? Because what I was seeing , and what I still see , is a lot of people going into these Facebook groups with other lawyers which is great , I'm glad they're there as resources . But there's somebody says , hey , I use this really cool system , these Facebook groups with other lawyers which is great , I'm glad they're there as resources . But there's somebody says , hey , I use this really cool system , and then I see people going , oh , I must need it too , and they buy it and they haven't even gotten trained or fully understand the system , the tools that they already have , yeah , shiny objects While there are systems and processes .
Speaker 3They're just going for shiny objects and doing right , while your systems and processes they're just going for shiny objects and doing right . So I think there needs to be processes and procedures for how we weave technology in and out of our business . And I think automation technology is wonderful , don't get me wrong . I just think we need to think about it before we go off and just like buy everything and I'll use my . I'll use it as the remarkable pad . I'll use that as an example . Everybody's talking about remarkable . I got it . It didn't work the way I wanted . First time I used it , I cured a drawer and I've never used it since . Right .
Speaker 2I've been thinking about getting one and I just can't see what . I want .
Speaker 3You know some people love them , I don't . But the last system is finance and this is you billing to key performance indicators , to I mean really understanding where your money comes from , how you're collecting that money , how much profit you're making on that money . And I find that a lot of small business owners and then we're talking about women law firm owners don't really they're embarrassed because they really don't understand how to use and read financials to guide the decisions they make in their business . And so many times I have conversations with people and I'll ask them about their numbers , basic questions that they should know off the top of their head , and they say well , I have to check with my accountant on that and that tells me right away they have no idea what I'm talking about .
Speaker 3They don't know , they don't have a deep , rich understanding of their business and and how . The whole purpose of a business is to make money . That is I know . People think , oh well , you know there are other purposes to my business and that may be , but you're running a charity or a nonprofit if you're not making a profit in your business , right ?
Speaker 3So , we need to have a deeper understanding of finances , how we actually make our money and where it goes , and what are wise investments , how much we should spend on marketing all those things , and so those are the seven essential systems that I sort of identified in that way and wrote about in my book Excellent .
Speaker 3Yeah , the financial side is , and I'm surprised that people that send out invoices and then don't follow up on them yeah ,
Systemizing Law Firm Operations for Growth
Speaker 3and you look at how many they don't have a system for it Right , they don't have a system for it and and also how many people delay sending out invoices . So one of my pet peeves is I think and I've been crazy since I've become a lawyer I've actually hired more lawyers than I ever did before I became a lawyer , because I know what I don't know . But one of the things that I think is so important is you need to get those invoices as closely attached to the work you're doing and the results you're getting to a client . So if you do work for me and six months from now you send me an invoice , I'm going to be real grumpy about paying that .
Speaker 3You know why ? Because human beings are always look for what have you done for me lately and we go well , I've you know well , that's done and you should have invoiced me back then , right , and that's just human nature . Everybody has that sort of feeling . You should have sent it to me while I was happy and in love with you and thought you were the greatest attorney ever , because you just saved me a bunch of money or saved my life . And if you mess around with that , you're not only hurting yourself , you're hurting your employees .
Speaker 3You're hurting your other clients . You're hurting everybody because you're not running the business the way that you , as a business owner , need to run it to keep it profitable sustainable for long-term and wealth generating for you .
Speaker 2Wow , yeah , that's . I absolutely agree with all seven of those . It makes so much sense . And just having those ducks in a row can you need to know where you are at all times and that way you can see that growth and win the hiring new person and you know , we've talked about that as well At what capacity do you embrace somebody else on ? And so that you don't overrun the capacity of your current people while they're training ?
Speaker 3So yeah , yeah . And one of the things I will say to people who get discouraged because they're not systems people or systems thinkers is that and I know a lot of my women law firm owner clients are like this I know I was like this we're perfectionists , we're high achieving women . We want to get in and roll up our sleeves and do everything ourselves and to really create a wealth generating law firm . You need other people to help you , and where we get stuck with systems is what we want to do is we think I need systems , I need systems , and then we identify some system that we need and then we want to stop everything and , for six months , work on perfecting the system before we implement it . And what I really encourage , I think one of the things that has been helpful to my clients is we really focus on the baby steps of implementation and we want to implement as we are doing the work .
Speaker 3So , as we're doing the work , we just want to go ahead and create templates out of that or create some process out of that as we're doing the work . And so your systems are not going to be perfect , right ? And you have to let go of that need for perfection and know that you're always improving . So it's progress over perfection . And when we sort of let go of that need to stop everything and have the perfect system before we can implement it , then we will make a whole lot more progress and we'll start to scale more quickly when we realize let's just do it as we're going , and it may not be perfect and we may need to keep improving it , but eventually it's going to get where we want it to be .
Speaker 2Exactly , we call that building the plane while we're flying it . You know , you just have to be active .
Speaker 2We do like when we're doing new SOPs . So one of the big things we do in Housework is we document everything we're doing . We use Loom and Google Drive . Do in Housework is we document everything we're doing , we use Loom and Google Drive and the people that are involved with that particular SOP have access to it . So now the next time it's done okay , did a step get skipped ? Has the software upgraded that we don't need a step ? So always keeping it up to date . But that way you can also hand those tasks off to someone else in the team so you can continue growing Agreed when you're hiring people .
Speaker 3It makes training so much easier .
Speaker 2Yes .
Speaker 3And if you don't have that right now and you don't have training materials and you're hiring somebody soon , then that's where you want to start creating some things now with this new person . So , as you're training them , record it . Yeah , record it . As you're training them , transcribe it . I have a great tip from a client she I .
Speaker 3I talked with her about delegating and and she was getting stumped at her . In her onboarding system she was doing consultations and then she'd get so many emails and she wasn't following up on them because she's busy . And she says , if I just gave them to my assistant , my assistant would follow up , but I don't even give them to my assistant . And so we came up with a process where she records her intakes , because everything's virtual . First she records her intakes with the client , she transcribes it , which automatically happens with her tool that she uses and then she takes that transcription , dumps it in Cloud AI , gets a summary of the conversation and then uploads all that to her case management and assigns it to whatever lawyer she's assigning it to , because she's got associates now and it completely changed her intake process and her next step just to show you an evolution her next step is she is now going to take those recorded conversations and those transcripts .
Speaker 3Now that she's checked to make sure the cloud , the AI , is writing good summaries . She is now giving that to one of her assistants and her assistant is going to generate the summary and upload it to the case management and assign it to whomever . So , always improving the systems , but thinking through what's my outcome , what's my personality , how do I work ? What would be in her case ? She's not somebody who wants to email or type instructions or whatever she says . If I have a meeting with somebody , I'm going to ask them to email me or whatever . I'll tell them and then they'll go do it , and so she knows just .
Speaker 3Her systems have to be around verbal you know , direction and verbal communication , whereas others are like I'm all email , you know so , as long as that . And so maybe they'll start to use the client portal more . So we're corralling those emails , those messages , in some place where they can be easily captured Right . So all kinds of nuances to systems , but the main thing is , don't let it just pick one . Pick one that you know needs to be improved , and start working on it today , and don't worry about getting it perfect .
Speaker 2Yeah , I have to say , when I first started doing it , it was I let it be this big gray cloud that you know you're just like , okay , it's a big project and it really isn't Every time . You do something that can be an SOP , that can be , you know , record it , get it done .
Speaker 3Yeah , and we live in a time that people are much more comfortable now with Zoom and recording and having things . And a lot of people you know get recording fatigue , obviously . But if you have a remote firm , which so many people do now , even if you're not entirely remote , they have a remote team . You know some people on their team are remote . You know people are used to using these types of recording devices . So it's really not that complicated . No , it's not .
Speaker 2And the thing about delegation is very interesting . I have a thing called I call it five questions the clarity that I use on almost every Friday . What did I do this week that I didn't need to be doing ? Right ?
Speaker 4Excellent .
Speaker 2You know so , especially as being the attorney that's running this wealthy woman law firm , you need to not be doing some things that are a lower cost value thing , not a really nice way to say that they're below your pay grade Exactly , and there's so many in this world that loves doing that type of thing , right ?
Speaker 3so , yes , you just pass that off and we always think we're , we always think we're the best person for every . I mean like if you sit there and you say to yourself I'm the best person for every job in my business and you realize how stupid that is when you say it out loud I'm the best person for every job in my business .
Speaker 3That that's just ridiculous . Like I know I'm not the best job . I'm not the best person for every job in my business . In fact , you know , there's probably like this much that I'm the best person for right . And it's humbling when you , when you , but that's really what you're saying . If you're saying I have to hold on to everything and that control , I have to hold it , because you're really say no other attorney is as good as I am . No bookkeeper is as good as I am . No , nobody's as good as I am at signing up clients . Nobody's as good as I am about making marketing decisions Nobody's . I mean , like it's really kind of ridiculous when you think it's that way it is , and we don't .
Speaker 3We just are there grinding away , you know , thinking it's like I can do it faster , instead of just you know , that's the thing , yeah , it has to be me Right . And and I think that's really the case when it comes to hiring lawyers , I think a lot of people get really stuck and stumped around hiring lawyers because they because if the lawyer is not a clone of them , that's a problem . But , truthfully , if they are a clone of you , that's a problem because you're . If they are a clone of you , that's a problem because you're probably got some gaps right . Um , and I think that's really the . The challenge for people is to say you know , is this sufficient , is this does this get the job done ? And that really helps you to release a lot when you say is , does this get the job done ? Will this get me the hearing ? Will this get me ? Uh , you Will this get me . You know , whatever it is that I need to get right .
Speaker 3And if you have another lawyer who can do that and maybe they didn't write it exactly the way you would have written it , but it gets the job done then you really need to think about that Well , I mean done is better than perfect .
Speaker 2You know we've got all these you know things that we , you know sayings that really , really make sense . Did you get the same outcome ? It's not , it's not perfect , but it's done . Move on .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's done and it's not your life , it's just , it's your work , it's part of your , part of your , and people get so hung up in well , it's my reputation and it's are , but they're not paying attention . They're not paying attention if there's a typo . Do you know the volume ? The more you're publishing whether that's motions to the court or you
Empowering Women Law Firm Owners
Speaker 3know arguments to the court , or whether that's publishing on social media or that's publishing a newsletter to educate your clients or that's both the more you're putting out there and making yourself and your firm visible , the harder it's going to be .
Speaker 3You can't have growth and have the details . You have to manage all the details and I've published such a high volume of content that I just know that there's going to be typos , there's going to be a wrong word . Some are going to auto-correct it the wrong thing . I never say duck , you know like there's , there's all that stuff that goes on and you just have to sort of say , well , you know , like I , I don't have , I don't have time to think of that , I need to move on . Did it get the job done ? Is it doing what I want ? And yeah , a mentor once told me you can control all the details or you can grow , but you cannot have them both .
Speaker 2Oh , that makes sense .
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 2That does . Well , I know that we want to be respectful of your time , so I have one final thing . You talk about having a wealth generating law firm business with total ease , without hard work . Enlighten us on that .
Speaker 3I don't think there's no work , but I think our perspective makes . I think it's our personalities that make things hard , Like it's our mindset around things that make things hard versus not hard . So I'll give you an example this business that I have right now . It's challenging . There's a lot of decisions to be made . I you know decisions all the time to be made about marketing and what I'm putting out there and how I'm talking to people about stuff , and then , of course , the coaching itself , and so there are challenges , but I don't perceive it as hard because it brings me such joy , Right ? Other people hear what I do and they go oh , my God , I would hate to sit on Zoom calls for you know , six hours a day or whatever , but it brings me such joy . I enjoy it so much because it suits me and I'm doing work that I love and I'm not doing work that I don't love . So I am not my bookkeeper , I am not my accountant , I am not even the person who talks to my accountant and my bookkeeper . My business manager is the person who talks to my accountant and my bookkeeper . My business manager is the person who talks to my accountant and my bookkeeper , right . So I love looking at financial reports and seeing the money add up and making decisions about my business and deciding what I'm going to invest in and what I'm going to do and all of that , but I'm not there lining up those numbers like little soldiers , right ?
Speaker 3So when it comes to scaling your law firm business , the hard work I think comes in in the grinding of day in and day out and never having a break . And I think law firms , practicing law , is really particularly unique because it is such a you're dealing with people with really serious problems . No matter what you're doing , there's a serious this is a serious moment in their life for the most part , and a serious transition in their life . And they are you know they're uptight about it involved in it . It's number one priority for them and it's just part of your day in and day out . But a lot of us we absorb all of that energy and we also get secondary trauma and we also get tired of being yelled at and there's a lot of factors that figure into it . And I think there's an easier way to do it and it really is about sort of pulling yourself out of it and starting to function like a business owner instead of the lawyer who is doing all the work right .
Speaker 3I really think , as a law firm owner , our problems are that we're not letting go enough and we're not being very clear on what our number one job is . I've recently had conversations with multiple people and I've asked them what is your number one job as the owner of the law firm ? And they say , well , the client service and taking care of clients . And I said , no , your number one job is to operate this business the way that it needs to be operated . So you've got to hire people to take care of your clients .
Speaker 3You've got to set up systems to take care of your clients . You've got to make sure the legal work is getting done , but your number one job is not to be down in the dirt doing the legal work . If you love it , then by all means do it , but hire some people to help you run the business . You have to switch your mindset if you own a law firm and your life will get exponentially better if you understand what your job is , because if you're not doing that job , no one is doing that job , I promise you .
Speaker 3Except for the few rare people who have hired somebody to run the business for them because they don't want to do it or they're not good at it or whatever , and that's OK too . But the majority of women I talk to they want the law firm business and they want to be the business owner , they want to be the CEO of their business . But their path of least resistance is every day to go in the office and they just start picking up the work and doing the work . Every day to go in the office and they just start picking up the work and doing the work and they never put time on their calendar for deep thinking and strategy and the work that involves scaling a law firm and if you do that then it will change your life .
Speaker 3It will absolutely change your life and you won't struggle as much every day , you won't get up every Sunday night , you won't be getting the sweats and the panic because you've got to go tomorrow and do all this legal work Right .
Speaker 2Right , I mean , I absolutely agree when it comes to you know , the biggest problem I know a lot of people have is delegation . And when you turn around and look at delegation , it's not just giving somebody the work , hold them accountable for it , then give them the responsibility to do it , it's the responsibility .
Speaker 3right , they need that authority . Right , they need that authority as well as their responsibility . And I think that's where a lot of us are still trying to hang on to or trying to delegate . But then we got to hang on to it and we don't have time to train and we don't have time to train . I don't have time to train anybody , but I have an expectation that by osmosis they're going to know yeah , and it's buried the hatchet , leave the handle sticking out , right ?
Speaker 2right , yeah , I mean , it's like I don't have all the time exactly . I don't have time to to do it , I don't have time to train you , but I'll have time to fix your problem , your mistakes .
Speaker 3Yeah , exactly , exactly . That's a great point , great point of view and this and I think the thing with delegation too , there's oftentimes with every issue in your law firm there are two components . There's a mindset component , but there's also technique , there's also skills , there's also systems . Right , there are things like with sales . People have sales conversations and they go why am I not closing ? Or why can't I train somebody to close ? Because they have a bad money mindset . The most likely is , or usually is , right . But there's also a technique . You haven't taught them how to have a proper sales conversation or how to have a proper consultation or how to prep a client for paying for a consultation with you and meeting with you . There's technique that you haven't taught them . So a lot of times . I think one of the things that should be a relief to people is to understand that you know you've done all this mindset work and still things aren't working . Well , there's nothing wrong with you , it's not your fault .
Speaker 3You just haven't realized that it's mindset , but it's also technique and there are also things you don't know , that you don't know , and that's where I think coaching programs can create those shortcuts for you and help you realize oh , I didn't even know , I didn't know that . And you'll also address your mindset as well .
Speaker 2I agree , I absolutely agree . I believe coaching buys your experience . You know I'm paying for experience to move forward faster . So and with that , how can our listeners connect with you and maybe reach out to you and chat with you about becoming a client or getting your books , or something like that ?
Speaker 3That would be wonderful . So my website is a great place to start . I have a lot of information there wealthywomanlawyercom . I'm on Instagram at wealthywomanlawyer . You can listen to the podcast on any podcast app . Sign up . If you like podcasts like this one , you're going to like that one . Subscribe to it . And also I have a training that I created called Build a Wealth Generating Law Firm , and it's three strategies for women law firm owners that double your revenue without doubling your workload . So I'll send you that link so everybody can click on that . That's a wonderful place to start . If you like podcasts , like me , you like my podcast . You will love this training and it's free and you can listen to it , and that's a great way to find out more about my thoughts , philosophies on scaling a law firm fantastic .
Speaker 2This has been great . We will make sure that those links are in the show notes and that people can reach out to you and get that training . It's been a pleasure having you today . I've loved this conversation and finding out more about what you do and how to scale a law firm .
Speaker 3Thank you , Marilyn . I've enjoyed being on your podcast . I absolutely love it .
Speaker 4Thank you as we wrap up , I'd love for you to do two things . First , subscribe to
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Speaker 4this podcast so you don't miss an episode , and if you find value here , I'd love it if you would rate it and review it . That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast . Second , you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about , and if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm , I'd be honored to help you . Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me . Stay tuned for our next episode next week . Until then , as always , thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode .
Speaker 1Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast . Remember you're not alone on this journey . There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success . Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom . From there , connect with other listeners , access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes . Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform . Until next time , keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm .
