Leadership In Law Podcast

40 Volunteering For Experience with Simone Holloway

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 40

Share episode

Join Marilyn Jenkins on the Leadership in Law podcast as we explore the inspiring journey of Simone Holloway, an attorney whose commitment to empowering others shines through her career. Simone's story is a testament to the power of perseverance and servant leadership. Discover how this first-generation professional leveraged volunteer work and internships to carve out a place in the legal field. Simone's experiences offer invaluable lessons in building a legal career through grit and long-term vision, especially for those just beginning their journey in law.

Simone takes us through her transition from a budding lawyer to a leader in a larger firm, emphasizing the skills necessary for a successful legal business. From client retention to setting fees and managing relationships, she shares insights into the business side of law that's often overlooked. Simone also speaks to the importance of mentoring, both giving and receiving, and how intergenerational learning fosters growth and adaptation in contemporary legal practices. This part of our conversation offers a roadmap for anyone looking to enhance their leadership skills and business acumen.

Finally, we dive into the significance of kindness and empathy in Simone's professional life, drawing on her experiences at Open Door Ministries. A conversation sparked by an older judge's concern highlights the crucial role civility plays in the legal profession. Simone's narrative encourages us to embrace opportunities and challenges, using kindness as a cornerstone for building meaningful relationships. As we wrap up, remember to stay connected with our community of law firm owners and keep learning from one another. Thank you for tuning in, and we look forward to your continued support.

Reach Simone here: 
https://www.simoneholloway.com/
Instagram: @thesimoneholloway
Facebook: Grace & Grit @graciouslygritty

The Law Firm Growth Guild is designed to help you learn and use proven marketing strategies, grow your firm smarter, and scale your law firm predictably.

Visit https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com to find out more and to join the private community.

My team and I are adding new content weekly so you can be intentional about your growth and development each week.

Join our private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at
https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins



Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 3:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, simone Holloway, to the show today. Simone is an attorney by day and a storyteller by night. She serves the world by creating stories of hope and resilience. Her life aims to encourage, motivate and inspire others to be who God envisioned at the moment of creation. From Greenville, south Carolina, simone is a published author, speaker and enthusiast for life. She's an associate attorney for a thriving law firm in the downtown area. She also serves the local church through the role of executive pastor and she is passionate about teaching the Word of God. Simone is the creator and founder of Grace and Grit, an online community for women who live in the both slash, and. This community is a safe, inclusive environment designed to empower, encourage and motivate women to be all they've envisioned to be unrestrained. I'm excited to have you here, simone, welcome.

Speaker 4:

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate it Absolutely. I'm excited to hear a bit more about your community and what you're doing. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started and how you got to where you are today?

Speaker 4:

Yeah, sure, and so I got started. I've always wanted to be a lawyer, since I was a kid and so I know weird, my whole life has almost been tailored for entering into the legal profession, right.

Speaker 3:

Wow.

Speaker 4:

Okay, young youth in government. In high school I did speech and debate. I was a part of a mock trial team. I was always that girl who wanted to argue, I guess, and had teachers and mentors who helped me, guided me to, you know, going to college, going to law school and then entering to the profession.

Speaker 3:

Oh, fantastic. Well, and knowing what you wanted to do at the early age, it's a good thing. I guess.

Speaker 4:

So yeah, I wanted to do it since I was seven. I didn't really have the language for it, I just knew I wanted to stand up for people. That's what I would tell people when they ask, what do you want to do for a living? I'm saying, well, I think I want to be a lawyer. I want to stand up for people. I always tell this story because I'm originally from New York how I thought I was going to be a New York prosecutor in an apartment in Manhattan overlooking the skyline. I thought that was the dream right, or the life. Well, my parents destroyed my dreams by moving me to South Carolina without any input or conversation, at 13th, and however I enjoy it. I'm so happy that we moved here. I love being a part of the South Carolina legal profession special network. The bar is great, and so I'm just grateful to be here.

Speaker 3:

Oh, fantastic. Well, I want to talk a little bit about how you got started in building your network by basically doing things that a lot of people didn't want to do. You made a name for yourself, made yourself known to the industry. Tell us about how you did that and how you got started with that.

Speaker 4:

Yeah, so before I went to law school, I actually took two years in. Between undergrad and law school, I went to Fermi University and then I just was bumming in and calling people and say, hey, I'll work for free, will you let me come by your office? Right? I know people don't like to work for free anymore. Everyone is out trying to what we call secure the bag.

Speaker 4:

Right, it comes with the time, but I've truly valued the opportunity to gain experience from people who have been in the profession for a long time and people that I knew were good at their craft, and so I did a lot of volunteer work. I was a runner, I was, you know, quasi quasi paralegal. Before entering into law school, I learned how to draft readings, I learned how to call and speak to clients. I was picking up coffee. I was running by the court, you know, to deliver documents, anything that he could think of. I was doing okay, and a lot of my peers. When we left school to go to law school, a lot of them wanted to get a paying internship, a paying job, right, because the thing is you know, I went to this fancy undergraduate university.

Speaker 4:

I went to liberal arts college for every university. So yeah, we were we're posh, we're fancy, right someone's to this fancy school and paid all this money tuition.

Speaker 4:

There's no way that I would freely give up time right and it doesn't need to do something that doesn't guarantee a return, and I think, if anything, I would encourage people to kind of shape or change their framework of mindset regarding that, because experience is invaluable Like underneath someone whether you're seeing instant gratification in the form of a check or not is invaluable. You've learned skills. You are placed in environments with other people who are just or even greater skilled than your peers or your mentors. You're able to be at conversations, at tables that you would have never been able to be at on your own. Let's just be honest who's going to invite a freshly graduated girl from Greenville to a roundtable with judges and legislators and things of that nature? No one.

Speaker 4:

I was a first generation, you know, on the path to be a first generation lawyer, I didn't have the connection to get me into certain room, and so when you are first gen and you don't have the money, you don't have the resources, you have to hustle a little bit, right, and you have to be willing to do things that other people aren't, you know, willing to do. And so, yeah, that's what I did. I hustled, I was like, hey, you want me to get your copy? Sure, I'll go copy.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think that's absolutely groundbreaking. I mean, you're right, people want to do you know, clerkships and stuff like that, where they get paid, where you know you dove in and you're like I'm here to learn, I'm here to get to know people, and if you enter the profession with no network, like you know the people that go to you know Yale and Harvard and stuff, they have a network already built in. So you didn't have that and you built that by sweat, sweat equity, got in there and got doing it. That's. That's fantastic and that led to some job offers, right.

Speaker 4:

It did so. When I finished my time working for a small firm here, I went to law school. Then I got into law school, did the same thing. I was working my whole year of law school. I had a job and came from picking up the phone calling around responding to ads, doing all those things. I worked for an attorney at Columbia, enjoyed my time with her doing family law practice, did that for a few years and then I got really involved into the community aspect of the university, the law school. So I was able to build a pro bono board. I did some stuff through the Black Law Students Association and that gained opportunities for me to find jobs through those networks. And so again, getting involved, asking questions, meeting people. You just never know where opportunities will find you if you're not willing to make yourself uncomfortable.

Speaker 2:

You see what.

Speaker 4:

I'm saying A lot of what we're looking for is outside of our comfort zone. We have to search for it, we have to, you know, go after it. And so being a part of those organizations, accepting leadership roles with those organizations, then gave me an opportunity to find a job with South Carolina Legal Services and yes, which is awesome, I was interested in public interest law at the time. They do double side stuff, so they do family landlord-tenant action. Some of your collections issues a lot of psycholingual services that, if you are make below a certain threshold, you can apply and those attorneys come in via a grant and they will basically be your counsel for that.

Speaker 3:

I see.

Speaker 4:

So, because of my involvement with Pro Bono Board and BOLSA, I was awarded a fellowship with Sacra Legal Services, worked with them, did everything they asked me to do, went everywhere they asked me to go.

Speaker 4:

And more, I'm sure more showed up on time dressed professionally, didn't laugh because I was on a stipend or didn't half of the work because I'm sitting in a room and I'm not able to share or contribute because I'm not an attorney, right, I don't have the knowledge or the skill set to kind of prove myself in this environment. I had to do a lot of listening, a lot of just sitting in the room, a lot of taking note, things of that nature. That opened up an opportunity post-law school for me to work for them again.

Speaker 3:

Wow, fantastic.

Speaker 4:

With the fellowship. They said man, you're such a hard worker, you're an amazing person, you carry yourself with integrity. We have an opening. Will you come back and help us? I was like sure.

Speaker 3:

Of course, of course Right.

Speaker 4:

You know? Yeah Again, volunteering, joining organizations, meeting people, asking questions, not having to be the one that always contributes verbally in conversation, not always having to be the one that has to prove something within.

Speaker 3:

I love that and I love the fact that you carried yourself with integrity. You took it as professional, even though you, like you said you weren't in charge, you weren't getting paid. You showed your true self before you even had a job, before you even had your law degree, and you just you made your own network with your own integrity. I love that, and how is that obviously still serving you now with what you're doing it?

Speaker 4:

is so. I learned how to speak to clients and to get intake of information through Sacral Legal Services that's what I learned and how to critically assess whether or not a case can be worthwhile within their guidelines right. So now I'm in practice. I it's my first job in the legal profession is working for a small plaintiff's firm, and I have to retain clientele well, good people don't have a problem talking to people because I'm talking to legal services, I didn't say right, right, oh.

Speaker 4:

And because I was in this community for so long, people know me, people know my name, people have you know. Their co-workers or their family members have had an interaction with me. I'm grown up in Greenville, went to high school here, and so it's easy now for people to say hey, she's a lawyer, she can help me, and for them to come now to my office. So my first position with a small plaintiff's firm, I did general stuff. So I did civil plaintiff's work, I did family law, I did estate planning and probate work. I also did a little criminal defense adult and juvenile and then I did a little, just a small portion of business delegation, like starting up businesses, looking at contracts, things of that nature. Right Again, whatever needed to be done, Whatever needs to be done, all right, I love it.

Speaker 4:

This is how we make money. This is how we build. You know you do a good job for one client. Before you know it they'll come back you didn't solve one problem and they'll become clients for periods of time, for years, and they'll send you just never know They'll send their family, they'll send their coworkers, they'll you know you'll be in the grocery and someone's like man, I have an issue and you strike up a conversation and that's how you open the door to make sure that you're able to keep a book of business in a profession. As a young lawyer, I think law schools sometimes don't do a good job of teaching incoming, or I should say, whereas we're leaving law school and entering to the profession. They don't do a good job of teaching them how to build business Right. Some to go to the big firm. Well, a lot of them are not going to make it into big law. They're not.

Speaker 3:

Well, I think across the board in the US we are educating employees.

Speaker 4:

We are.

Speaker 3:

So you have the drive early. Obviously, as an entrepreneur, if you want to run your own business, you have to make that happen yourself. It's just like marketing Law school doesn't teach you that. That's one of the things that I help clients with. We help you do something that you're not taught to do, but being able to put yourself out there and say I'm gonna learn everything I need to know so I can be the best I can be.

Speaker 4:

I love that you know, and so you're exactly right. I never had a class that taught me how to speak to clients, ever. I never had a class that taught me how to balance a my statements for an iota. I didn't have a class about reconciliation and we have to do it. We have to do a part reconciliation to comply with that rule Did not have a class. I didn't have a class about hey, how do I draft a fee agreement and close a file? Never had that class.

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4:

Okay, but a lot of individuals, when they leave law school and they take the bar, a lot of them join either smaller or medium-sized firms to get started and get under their belt. They have a clerkship, possibly, where they're assigned to a judge or they're doing something for a year or two years, whether it's on the state or federal level. A lot of people are just building their own, hanging their own shingle early, because they don't have a choice.

Speaker 4:

That's what they have to do. And then another group are finding themselves being courted by the bigger establishments, as they should, because they work and they have the profile that fits what that firm desired and it was right right but when you don't have certain skills, you can be in all four of those categories and not be able to sustain yourself if something goes wrong. You know.

Speaker 3:

True Because nothing's guaranteed.

Speaker 4:

It really isn't, you know. And so what I learned from my first law position is how to build a business. This is how we retain clients, this is how we set fees, this is how we enter into fee agreements. This is how we work a file from beginning to end. Right and end is hearing, end is the signature of the order, the mailing of that order to that client and the letter terminating that representation. So beginning to end, okay, that representation. So beginning to end. And how do we follow up with clientele to make sure that we tell them we will have your documents for that statutory period and if you need anything else, we'll be more than happy to you know address that problem or address that issue to you know address that problem or address that issue and ask for a review and ask for a review always hey, please leave us a review, please tell us, give us some feedback.

Speaker 4:

How are we servicing you, what are some things we could have done better, what are some things that you liked about our interaction and things of that nature. So I learned how to really talk to a wall paint on a wall really because, believe it or not, I was very shocked as a child okay and wanted to be a lawyer.

Speaker 4:

It was lawyer you just saying to me. But I did, and so my mother saw that this is something I wanted to do, so early on, she placed me in environments where I had to, where I had to. Okay, you know, my mother is also former military, so okay, there you have it no, no excuses for anything right, and so I'm always in place in environments where I had to push myself a little bit more right, get out of my comfort zone, and so that's what the first position really taught me.

Speaker 3:

And then now, because of the work I did with that small plaintiff's firm, I was recruited to the position that I'm at right now with a bigger firm a larger firm and that's fantastic, and I'm guessing the smaller firm that you were with you probably left them stronger than when you arrived because of the things that you did to help them grow. And then the fruits of that is you've got another opportunity. I know that you use the term servant leadership a lot and it sounds like with what you did with the legal service and almost everything you've been doing. You've been doing that. You care to explain a bit more what you mean by that term?

Speaker 4:

Sure, so for me, servant leadership is a leader that is willing to get in the dirt with others, right?

Speaker 4:

So it's not about delegating or giving tasks to another person that you can do yourself.

Speaker 4:

It's about saying, hey, let's do this together. And I know, in my history of working, I've always been in a role of mentorship and I've always been it had the opportunity to learn, help, to work with different people, groups, and I think that when you are a servant leader, it's less about how others aren't serving you or helping you or making things easier for you, and it's more about how can I esteem them, affirm them and show them that they have the ability to do this, even if they don't see it themselves. I think we get the best out of our people when, like we talked about earlier, when we place our egos aside and we get in the game with them. So it's one thing to talk about oh, I need you to have this many hours or I need you to be able to do this, this and this, and another to stick with your associate and show them how you are doing it and tips and tricks to help them be able to accomplish those goals.

Speaker 3:

And I think I want to go from being servant leader and delegating, figuring that they are not definitely two different things. You can be a servant leader and delegating, figuring that they are not definitely two different things. You can be a servant leader and still delegate. You don't have to be as you scale, as you grow you don't have to be involved in everything.

Speaker 3:

But, having known that that gives you, as a servant leader, a way of training and bringing other people into the process and helping grow that way and still keeping your leadership position and helping learn responsibility or teach responsibility and delegation.

Speaker 1:

So I think I love the way that you do that yeah.

Speaker 3:

And sitting beside. The fact that you learned intake is something that I also find that some attorneys have issues with it's and maybe it is being able to talk to people, but I love that you did that, and learning that through the ProBolo work also gave you an opportunity to learn how to swiftly qualify or disqualify. Is that true? That is true that?

Speaker 4:

is true? Yeah, because once you learn the guidelines of your firm, or you learn like what services we provide, what can, can we do, what's our capacity, they're able to quickly ask strategic questions to determine whether or not this client is someone that you can service.

Speaker 4:

but I found and I loved this in the first three or four months I was having two hour consultation oh me with oh no I and because they were giving their life story and I got hung up in the details and, yeah, I was like there's a little rambling going on, you know, and I remember of the partner that I was learning from. He pulled me inside. He said why are your meetings taking so long? It sounds like, well, I'm not quite sure I'm asking the fight, but it's a lot of narration and a lot of storytelling happening. And these meetings, he says questions are you asked? So I told him my list of questions. He said, okay, I see where you're going wrong and he revised the question and those two hour meetings went down to 15 to 30 minutes because of the quality of the question. And I think this is kind of why we, as young lawyers, specifically first gen, we need to make sure we're connected to older attorneys and that we're listening to them and we're hearing their wisdom.

Speaker 4:

I'm not saying that everything that the older attorneys do is the best route or where it's coincides to where we are right now in our time, right Ever. There is a richness of wisdom when you speak to someone who's been practicing 30, 40 years Successfully Successfully you can take and apply into your own practice and twist them to the table Exactly Into a better, a better space.

Speaker 3:

Really that's. I love that. It does make a difference. You know there was a, an article oh my gosh, maybe six or eight years ago that was, I think it was nine questions from Harvard Law on how to interview and do an intake. So we took that, those nine questions, and made it into 12 questions that add sales closing questions to it for a few clients and it just.

Speaker 3:

It's a great training thing, but you know you need to know the direct questions to ask that you go straight to the point thing. But you know you need to know the direct questions to ask that you go straight to the point. It's so easy, especially if you're more sympathetic than empathetic, to get involved in that story and then you're only becoming a professional visitor. At that point You're not really closing the sale or moving forward or helping them. But that's very interesting. And what has been as far as your mentoring and the way that you feel you're growing in your community? I know you're an executive pastor as well and run a community of women. Tell us a little bit about that and how things have progressed for you there sure?

Speaker 4:

so, yes, I do have an online community called Grace Ingrid, and it is an inclusive community for women who believe in what I call the both, and that is, you're not limited to either. Or you're not just a lawyer or a mom, or this. No, you're both. You're a lawyer and a mom, or you're an artist and you enjoy running your own business. You're just a plethora of many different things, and so that community has grown over the last two or three years just by me sharing more about myself. I think people just want to feel connected to others and they want to know that they're not alone, and so I just share stories about hey, this is what's going on in my life, how are you doing Like? I've been on this journey, for example, for the last year, and so I've been sharing and allowing the women to hold me accountable, to go to the gym every day.

Speaker 4:

Right. Right, I have a young lady reached out to me and said I've been wanting to get into fitness myself but I've been discouraged. But you show up every single day tired or I'll share that I'm sore or achy. I just like that encouragement to get back into it. I'm like that's awesome.

Speaker 3:

I'm nice.

Speaker 4:

So that's kind of what that community is about. It's not be honest, it's about you know, share who you are and knowing that you have other women who are rallying behind. Now my church, open Door Ministries, is a similar inclusive environment. It's a religious organization and it's not just for women, it's for all. But the role there is that I manage operations for the ministry and so I'm not a senior executive pastor or a care pastor. I handle ministry leadership and I make sure that the ministry leads have everything that they need for their departments to be successful. So it's a lot of checking in to our inventory, checking in on our budget, checking in on hey, service goes from 12 to 1.30. Do we have everything that we need for that?

Speaker 1:

right.

Speaker 4:

Person service. We do virtual and in-person gatherings, so it's making sure that on the virtual space we're good those who are speaking.

Speaker 4:

they are connected to that platform and then once we have our in-person service, it's making sure that from the beginning to the end, every single person who's on a program or is supposed to present, they have the resources that they need to do that without a hitch. So it is very rewarding. I enjoy it. I'm a preacher's kid so I've always been in church. That probably you know the kind of charisma and just being involved in things very early on. Church kids are probably the most. I don't even know how I would say this, but I think they do more hobby than any other. You know category of children that I know. They're like in dance, they're on choir, they're doing it. Oh right, right, right, so much. So when I meet a fellow church kid and they tell me about their childhood of being involved it's 15 things I'm like, oh, you're my people. I relate.

Speaker 3:

I love that. So so you, you were taking a leadership role even in these other. You know organization leadership. So when you say you know not knowing how to run a business, you've got all of these organizational things in mind and already ingrained in you. Do you feel that those two volunteer efforts also help you with your career?

Speaker 4:

Yes, I do, I do. I think every volunteer project or activity I have been a part of has shaped me as an individual to be more empathetic and more kind and compassionate to other people. It has made me a better lawyer, because when you're able to connect with others, treat them with dignity and respect and then argue their position before a court of law with that dignity and respect in mind, it does make you a better individual and I think other people respond to that. People respond to civility, they respond to respect, they respond to love. They don't respond well to ego and rude behavior and you know this behavior that makes them feel like you don't care about them as an individual.

Speaker 4:

Right, and just something that I was talking with. I'm part of an organization where lawyers get together to protect the integrity and civility of the law and I was having a conversation with an older judge who's been on the bench a long time. Was having a conversation with an older judge. She's been on the bench a long time and his concern is that attorneys in my generation those coming up, that we have lost the important of being kind one to another.

Speaker 4:

He's very concerned that we're more focused on making money and peacocking for our clients versus being kind one to another, because, at the end of the day, your opposing counsel is still your colleague. You're on opposite sides of the case. You may have different positions, you may have different positions, you may have different clients to service, but you guys are still a part of the same bar and have cases together again Plenty of times and if you do what I do, you see the same people all the time on the other side you do, and so I think and I listened to the wisdom that he was sharing with me and I agree. I believe that you have to be a kind person, not a pushover or anything like that, but you have to be a kind person to have longevity in this work and in this field, and you become a little more kinder when you're thinking of someone else above yourself.

Speaker 3:

You do, true, that's true. Well, I think a lot of what you said here can be translated into other professions as well. But I mean, look at the professional football field. You know they get out there and it's a battle right. These guys, you know they go to camp together, they know each other, they spend time together After the game. You can see they're not. You know it's not that adversity. So this has been a really great conversation. I really enjoy your kindness and everything comes through. I really enjoyed having this conversation. If you were thinking about our audience, what would you like them to have? The biggest takeaway? What would be the takeaway you'd hope they have?

Speaker 4:

I guess the biggest takeaway that I hope that they have is to be willing to do anything within reason taking an internship or volunteering, or going to lunch picking up the phone and having the conversation grabbing coffee. You never know the relationships that you'll build with other individuals. You'll never know what and who they will expose you to, and you'll gain so much by saying yes than you will by automatically writing off with a no.

Speaker 3:

Fantastic, that's great advice. Great advice. Now. I know the listeners will probably want to connect with you and reach out to you. Where's the best way to reach you or connect with you?

Speaker 4:

Sure, you can follow me on social media, on Instagram at the Simone Holloway that is the best way to find me. Or you can visit my website at wwwsimonehollowaycom.

Speaker 3:

Fantastic, Simone. Thank you so much. This has been a really great show. I appreciate your time and all your advice. Thank you so much.

Speaker 4:

Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Marilyn Jenkins

Host