Leadership In Law Podcast

45 Working With Your Marketing Agency for Success with Andre' Savoie

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 1 • Episode 45

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Discover the transformative world of legal marketing through the eyes of Andre Savoie, a seasoned expert who turned a personal battle with mesothelioma into a groundbreaking approach to connecting attorneys with clients. With a unique blend of personal experience and professional insight, Andre shares how understanding the client's perspective can revolutionize legal marketing strategies. You'll learn how his innovative hybrid model empowers business owners through one-on-one guidance and group learning, helping lawyers navigate the often intimidating legal landscape.

Join us as we explore the evolving relationship between clients and marketing agencies in the legal field, spotlighting the significant shift from traditional to digital marketing practices. Andre emphasizes the necessity for attorneys to actively engage in their marketing efforts, breaking from the passive expectation that agencies will manage everything. We discuss the power of training programs designed to elevate attorneys' understanding of marketing strategies, enabling them to manage in-house teams more effectively and collaborate with agencies to foster lead nurturing and law firm growth.

Delve into the strategic differences that can make or break a law firm's marketing efforts, as Andre sheds light on the vital distinction between strategy and tactics. With anecdotes from the field, he illustrates how factors like receptionist interactions and robust lead management systems can dramatically impact client acquisition and retention. The episode concludes with an invitation to join the Leadership in Law podcast community, a hub for law firm owners to share experiences and successes, accessible through lawmarketingzone.com. Don't miss this opportunity to connect with a network of like-minded professionals committed to transforming their legal practices.

Reach Andre here:

https://andresavoie.com/

The Law Firm Growth Guild is designed to help you learn and use proven marketing strategies, grow your firm smarter, and scale your law firm predictably.

Visit https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com to find out more and to join the private community.

My team and I are adding new content weekly so you can be intentional about your growth and development each week.

Join our private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at
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Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, andre Savoy, to the show today. Andre is a marketing strategy wizard and wannabe fishing captain. After over 17 years of running a marketing agency, he came to the conclusion that the model needs to evolve. Marketing is getting more complex and business owners feel more overwhelmed than ever before. Yet one thing remains unchanged Nothing is more important than strategy. Getting this right leads to clarity, purpose and growth. Creating strategies is his superpower, his zone of genius, his happy place. That's why he walked away from his agency to offer clients a new hybrid model where you can get the strategic help you crave on a one-on-one basis, while learning and becoming empowered in an affordable group setting. I'm excited to have you here, andre, welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, Marilyn. I appreciate it. Look forward to chatting.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

So tell us about the lawyers in my life.

Speaker 2:

Yes, exactly. Let's chat about the lawyers in your life and how you work with your clients to help them learn better about marketing in your life and how you work with your clients to help them learn better about marketing.

Speaker 3:

Sure. So you know I like to say lawyers in my life because almost 20 years ago when I started my marketing agency, my father got diagnosed with mesothelioma and you work with lawyers. So maybe you probably know what that is. A lot of people maybe don't, but mesothelioma is a very rare form of asbestos cancer and the lawyers at that point I was very raw in the discovery of, like my father's illness and then those of you who don't know much about mesothelium. It's basically a death sentence and it happens very quickly. So you get diagnosed and then oftentimes the patient's dead within six months. So a very traumatic time for us to find we're going to lose our dad. This is work-related injuries. It could have been prevented Finding a lawyer that specialized in this area.

Speaker 3:

So I went through all that as a plaintiff and our family and developed a relationship with the attorney that handled our case and he was my first client 20 years ago, and so I kind of had that really personal experience of being on the other side, of meeting an attorney and seeing what the process was.

Speaker 3:

What are you looking for, what do you need? And those raw, uneducated moments have really guided me when I work with lawyers, because I feel like a lot of lawyers and lawyers are not unusual just in that they have a lot of knowledge about what they do, so they're very close to it right. So being able to step away from it and have that beginner's mind of this is what plaintiffs are going through when they're in the process of looking for an attorney. That served me very well. And just communicating with lawyers about marketing over the years, you know, because they need that perspective of talking to somebody that's not a lawyer. You know they're not marketing to lawyers. They're marketing to people who are in a very tough spot when they're going to look for an attorney.

Speaker 2:

Right and you have such a unique perspective to have been that person that needed an attorney, and so you've seen it from the prospect's point of view, because we're trying to get them more, of those people that need their services.

Speaker 3:

Yep, and that's no matter what the type of law it is. I think attorneys maybe don't remember that that person is going through this for the first time, or they're on a very tumultuous state, you know, and they don't understand half of what's going on. So I think that's a good way, good thing to remember. You know, that's the mindset of the people you're working with and maybe in certain things like maybe business and business law government contracts, maybe it's a little different than that as a law government contracts, maybe it's a little different than that you don't have attorneys.

Speaker 3:

You don't have attorneys.

Speaker 2:

Right and I think that's true in many, many industries is you're performing the service and you lose perspective of this is you do it every day and this is the only one time this person's ever done it, you know. So it does make a difference to look at it in that direction. So, looking at what you're doing now, not in the agency aspect, what do you do for your clients and how do you help them get those strategies or work the strategies out for their business?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So the idea for what I'm doing now actually came from an attorney client. So about five years ago we had an attorney client. So about five years ago we had an attorney client that told us he didn't think he was happy with what was going on and he didn't understand and he put it in his notice and he told us that he wanted to look around and look for another marketing agency and just see. But he goes. It's such a good relationship with him. He said could I pay you to help me go through the process and that's the proposals and just be in the meetings and talks. I'm happy to pay you. And he said, and at the end we went through this whole process with him and through that process I realized that even though he was working with us, after looking around and getting a better understanding of what he needed and what he wasn't doing as a client, you know, like what he needed to do better.

Speaker 3:

We want to be doing things for clients and I think there's this expectation that when you hire an agency, they're going to do things for you and maybe you don't need to do as much on your end. And what I did was I've actually walked away from my agency and I created a group program, which is a low-cost group program, so I'm not competing with agencies and what people can do is I've built a course, I've built a lot of the training and things that I've done with clients over the years, and my goal at this point is to help people come in there and become more empowered so that they work with an agency or, as they maybe try to hire, some help in house things, that they have a better idea of what they're involved with and what to manage. And so, like Marilyn, in the case of an attorney working with someone like you, they could be in our program and get a better understanding of some of the core things that you're working on with them, and they will then learn okay, now I have a better understanding of what they're working on and I can contribute in this way, or maybe we do things this way that will help the overall success of it. And so I think the reality of it is that no client's ever going to go to an agency and they do all of it for us without our input. Right, right, more input and the more involvement a client can have, the greater their success will be, whether they're working with an agency doing it themselves.

Speaker 3:

You know, have an in-house employee, because we would have law firms all the time that came in and they had an in-house marketing person that the attorney didn't know how to manage, you know, and even though they were working, so they had an in-house marketing person and working with an agency and the attorney couldn't give guidance and direction to the in-house person to get the end result that they wanted. So even things like that are things that I wanted to start sharing on a broader basis with people, because I felt like that's really where I am at the stage after 20 years of doing this. That's where I am at the stage is to be a trainer and a mentor to people to help them get through that process and be more successful without having to quit with the agency they have. Because it just felt like over and over again, attorneys would get frustrated with the agency because they didn't understand the results, they didn't understand what it was going to take, they didn't understand what the agency was telling them, and so their default answer is fire the agency and go find a new one and sometimes it works, because I know there are crappy agencies out there but for the more part.

Speaker 3:

What you found is that the clients needed to elevate their knowledge and what they were doing, to be more participative, and I think that's what I've learned after 20 years is that the clients and I think it's in this day and age too, and you could probably speak to this, but you know, if you're an attorney and you want to differentiate yourself in this market today, you've got to be authentic and right. It's very hard as an agency to come up with authentic things if the client's not involved. You know, and so I think that's another part of it. You know that's even more reason for attorneys to be more involved with their marketing and learn. You know.

Speaker 2:

I agree when you talk about them not knowing what to be involved with. We find that expectations and I'm sure this is part of your training is expectations on both sides. It's incredibly important. We also have a professional account manager that is assigned to each of our clients so that there is weekly communication. We want to make sure if there's any confusion it's handled early. It's full transparency of what we do.

Speaker 2:

But one of the things I noticed early on in my agency of working with attorneys is when we started working together, they expected us to do everything basically untold. I mean, it's kind of like the assumption is is you're going to bring me a client ready to pay, and that just isn't true. When it comes to online marketing, we're going to hopefully bring you some very warm leads ready to find an attorney, but we can't hand you a case right Without you doing some work with that. We do train our clients with the front desk and that sort of thing. So I think you know what you're doing is great in getting them to understand how online marketing can make them really scale their their firm, but they need to understand what happens on their side as well.

Speaker 3:

Yep, and you know, I think if you look at like from a big picture, there's been this evolution in marketing over the years where it went from TV and phone book and billboards and bus stops and those sort of things down into you know, that's a very small group of attorneys that's doing that and I'm not saying it works or doesn't work. I'm just saying the number of attorneys who are choosing to do that is very small compared to the ones that are doing it. And to do digital it's not. You don't just buy the ad and then you forget about it. It's not that simple and so you have to be more involved in one about understand the technology and how it works and to understand that the journey of the customer who's making that first inquiry is different and needs to be handled, sort of way. So all those things come into play and that's where people get frustrated when they don't really understand.

Speaker 3:

And again I've seen attorneys come in that had been through two agencies and wasted two years and whatever they had spent because they weren't doing their part. And I know that it doesn't really sound like. I don't want that to sound like a playing game, but what I mean is that when they begin to understand and to take some ownership of that side of their business. They then all of a sudden see their result in loss because they're just in a better place, and I think they just have the realization that this is not a handball process. I can't hire somebody and forget about this and just go deal with what I want to do. And it doesn't mean that they have to become a full-time marketer, right? It doesn't mean that they have to stop what they're doing and do all that, but it does mean that their level of participation and contribution directly affects the success of the campaigns.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and I agree. I want them to be as you want them to be educated and understand what we're doing At the same time. It's like when I needed a divorce, I didn't do it myself, right, I wanted a professional to take care of it, so I hired an attorney to do it. I want my attorney clients and any of my legacy clients to understand what we're doing, but you don't need to know the nuts and bolts because you're good at what you do. We want to bring you more business, to be able to do more of what you do. But the expectations, the knowledge, and so that we're.

Speaker 2:

But I hate buzzwords. That's the other thing is, you know there's certain buzzwords that we could say PNC, they get it because that's their buzzword. But to try to talk to a client that's not a marketer and use all of these KPIs and stuff that they don't need to learn all of that. Speak to them so that they understand, tell them about the reports. What are you showing them and help them understand what's going on. I think that's the biggest thing is I applaud you for what you're doing, Just making sure people understand what they're buying and why it's working or why it's not.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you, and you know, marilyn, the other thing that I think is really important with attorneys is, you know, when we, when we chose our attorney, you know as a family, you know we for somebody who was, who was going to be tough, right, so we, we kind of like, we were like, okay, yeah, we're going against the big, big guys, right, so we need somebody that's tough, but for us we were in such a bad place that compassion was more important and knowledge in this area of the law was important. And so, you know, as I looked at and this is how I wound up signing the client, because the client that that attorney happened to be referred to us and we saw those characteristics in him. But when I pulled up his website, I said to him I said Frank, I said your website's like a business card, and he goes I know it's embarrassing, it's terrible, and I said it doesn't convey any of of what you have done for us. I said it doesn't doesn't convey any of this. I said it just looks like a generic site.

Speaker 3:

I would, if I had come in online, I would have no way of picking you out, separate from anybody else, and so that has stuck in my head that, like these attorneys especially the good ones are really good at those things you know, and so they don't. If they don't take the time to communicate that to you, marilyn, you'll never have a chance of putting that in front of the right person. Who's going to make that connection with that, with that person? Because they're looking for that at the time and I think that's it has to come from them. You know they have to be and and and share with what makes them different and and be good at it, because they're not all the same, not by a long shot.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I've been around enough of them at this point to know that they're all vastly different, that's true, and the one thing that we have a huge issue with doing is I understand that they're being cautious about being on camera or any of that sort of thing, but one of the things that we try and sometimes it's like pulling teeth to get is an intro video. That's something simple that you do it with your phone and you don't talk to the phone. Talk to that PNC, right. Talk to that potential new client and tell them who you are, what you do, how you help with it, and call the number below, right. I mean that sort of thing so we can use it in ads. But we want to hear your voice, because the everyday Joe feels like attorneys are unapproachable and there's times in their life where they desperately need one.

Speaker 2:

And they need to be able to go. Andre was the guy. I saw his video. I really liked him.

Speaker 3:

It's a connection, personal connection.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there's that know, like and trust, and we need that in marketing Because especially, we're talking local marketing. You're probably not the only estate planning attorney or the only family law attorney you know. Differentiate yourself by being approachable, having a few videos out there and just explaining who you are. We're not asking for legal advice, right? We just want to have your voice there because you're right. Those websites, you know the professional ones that are gorgeous and have all the conversion pieces to it unless you've got videos somewhere, there's nothing bringing people back, keeping them there long enough to get some ranking out of it or explaining who you are.

Speaker 3:

Yep 100% agree.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. When you're working with your clients, how do you help them to overcome the confusion and maybe choosing if they want to A keep their marketing in-house or choose an agency?

Speaker 3:

You know, for me, I really feel like it's about understanding the strategy, and so the way I've built the course modules and the way I run my training is that I just use Google Ads and we talk about Google Ads in a way that helps them understand what makes a successful campaign. My class is not about getting into the weeds of the specifics of keywords and this, and that we're not trying to teach somebody how to run a Google Ads campaign, but we're trying to teach somebody what the elements are that make for successful people and then what kind of expectations they have. So we talk about things in that sense of understanding why and how that people learn how to think about things, and I think that's really what I've been after with this program is to teach people how to think better about the marketing and that way they can get in and they become come to the next meeting with you they have a better thought process, to understand what you're trying to do with this, so that when they look at a report or a keyword or an ad, they can go okay, now I understand. Here's a question I have, or here's a suggestion I have, based on whatever we've seen. You know, and that's where the light bulb clicks with people.

Speaker 3:

You know, because you can take the same tactic and look at it from two different ways, and so I think if we can get the light bulbs to come on, that's how we people show up to a meeting with you and say I'm in a better headspace now I understand this and I can ask you intelligent questions and I know what the answer should be and that at that point, if I decide you're you're not being upfront or you're you know, you're I know more than you, then I can decide to leave at that point or I can then appreciate what you're doing and make some contributions.

Speaker 3:

You know, and that's the experience I had as an agency owner when I went through this process with other clients, and that's what I want to provide now, you know, for people to have that level of understanding. You know, because I feel like a lot of times, people feel like they don't know how to talk to their marketing agency and they don't understand the reports and they don't understand the jargon that you have, and so it's like we can help close that gap. We have better communication. At that point, They'll feel better about their decision to stay or maybe they're in the wrong place and they need to go find somebody else, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean exactly, and the first part.

Speaker 3:

You know, I think I think more often than not, if they're with a person that cares, an agency that cares and has some experience in their niche, they will. They will choose to stay because they will have a better understanding of what's happening.

Speaker 2:

Right and I find it. You know, if they having to sign to someone that isn't doing the cases.

Speaker 3:

Yep.

Speaker 2:

That you take it off your desk. You want to work on your business, not in it, and what we do is help your business grow. So you can. You know we never in our ads, we never say that you're 15 minute consultations with an attorney, because most attorneys have an intake person that qualifies, then they go to the attorney. So much saving time. And do you so? Do you cover specific things, like we do meta ads and Google ads? Do you do group coaching that focuses on each individual aspect, like different office hours, type things? Is that how you work?

Speaker 3:

Yep. So our my course is broken down into seven modules, starting from strategy all the way down to nurturing, and again they're thought process courses, they're not nitty gritty courses. And then after that, you know our weekly office hour stuff has different. We have an open session, then we have specific topics that we get into at different times. So, obviously, meta ads, email marketing, social media all that stuff is covered, even website maintenance, seo and again, just helping people out and stuff. All these things are built just based on people having asked me questions for 20 years that I'm honestly tired of answering. But you know, we want to put them in there in a way that they can learn from that and not make those mistakes you know and become better for. So that's really what we, what's what I've geared that up for?

Speaker 2:

fantastic, fantastic. So you help them understand everything and then from there they would have do they have private sessions with you so they can go over and say this is, I think we've been doing this. We'd like to change to this strategy. What do you suggest? Or do you do any private sessions?

Speaker 3:

Well, right now that's through kind of the group. I call it a group coaching call where you know they can show up and have those questions answered. If somebody's got something sensitive, they can message us on the side. But we really are kind of focusing everybody on that because we want people to learn as much as possible. And then in our case we do have plenty of people that are in the group that are actively working with us because they just want to understand better. And I got a text yesterday from a guy who just went through our first page. He was like, oh my God, this is so amazing. I'm like I've gotten so much out of this already and he's got. He's not. He's not leaving his agency anymore, but he's just more talented, be a good client and get what he needs.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, now he understands what he's working with. So you talk about strategy. So how do you help your clients understand the difference between strategy and tactics?

Speaker 3:

I have a whole module on that.

Speaker 2:

They are completely different.

Speaker 3:

I absolutely agree of it as a way of just what the overall plan is, and so a strategy is a plan, and a plan has individual parts in it, those individual parts of the tactic. And I think it's important because what I've seen over the years, Marilyn, is that people can do the same tactics, like in your case. You work with law clients. You could take the same divorce attorney in one town and run it for an attorney in another town and that tactic works great for this attorney and it doesn't work for this one. And you have to look at why, and the why is always because the other things happening in the strategy are different from this client to that client, For whatever reason. It could be their website, their Google reviews. They're doing this or not doing that. It could be any number of things. They're doing this or not doing that. It could be any number of things. But that's why tactics kind of don't matter, because I've just seen enough of it.

Speaker 3:

Where the same tactic works, works for one, it doesn't work for the other, and it's not because of the tactic, right? So Google ads we know work. Facebook ads we know work, but it's the question of are they not working for you, and that's the strategy. And the strategy can include things that you're responsible for as a client, you know, and so that's part of the understanding is that why doesn't this work for one person versus the other?

Speaker 3:

Because maybe that other client's doing things that you aren't doing, outside of the things that an agency is doing, and so let's understand what those are and maybe you can do them. Maybe you can't, Maybe that means you need to hire an in-house person to your point right, to help with certain things, and or maybe you need to hire an in-house person to your point right To help with certain things, and or maybe you need an agent, whatever it is. But that's for you to understand why, like why Google ads aren't working for you. You have to work the strategy, Because it's not a question to do Google ads work or Facebook ads work. There's no arguing about that. What they're not able to do is dependent on your strategy and what you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Right and keeping up. I mean you do as the client. You have to be able to work these leads. You have to be able to take that. We can't spoon feed the leads, your services, and make, make the pay and that's part of a strategy.

Speaker 3:

You know, a strategy is not about a lead gen, like somebody called, and it's a magical thing, like it's. So I'll tell you a quick story. I was, I was in an attorney's office and, again, this is what this is part of the why I've done this. I was in an attorney's office and the attorney was at lunch and the phone rang and I overheard this whole conversation. So the conversation with this girl answering the phone was yeah, we do that, but the attorney's not here. Do you want me to have him call you later? And she's like no, okay, she hung up.

Speaker 2:

Oh no.

Speaker 3:

Comes back in First thing out of his mouth. He goes you guys are going to, I'm calling you here. I want to do this face, toto-face. You know, like this isn't working and we're going to have to let you guys go. And I said really, and I said what's the problem? And he's like well, we're not getting any calls.

Speaker 3:

And I said, well, I had a report of the calls. And I said, well, I just overheard the receptionist take a call. And he goes good, calls were in there. And she's like what was the call? She said, well, she got hurt somewhere. And I said you let him off the phone, like that.

Speaker 3:

And I said, well, have you looked into how your phone's answered? What's happening with intake, any of those things? He's like no, my receptionist. And I'm like so you know what? I fired the client right there. He didn't want to work on any of those things, so he just had to participate.

Speaker 3:

And so I just learned that like I could take that same campaign and get it to another attorney who had a who was willing either had a better system or willing to build a better system, and he'd be a client for life and think this is great because it's helping grow his practice, and so that's the difference, I think, with why clients have to take accountability for their part, because I just have seen it with my own two eyes. I mean, if I get you a call and your receptionist botches it and you don't call them back and it's a slip and fall case could be worth significant money. I mean, you just paid for marketing for a couple of years with one case and you just let it go through sloppy practice. So I've just seen that enough to where I'm ready to make sure that people are aware of those things and have the opportunity to do them and again see better results because of it.

Speaker 2:

Or worse yet. They just don't answer the phone. They're busy, they just don't get to the phone.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean it's. It is. Those are the types of things that if we are not communicating, like I told you before we got on here, we have a client that have been using another agency for five months and walked away because there was zero ROI you know they were losing money every month and came on with us. She had worked with a previous client a few years ago and went out on her own and was not sure if she would be able to afford the renewal. But she had her processes in place. She knew what she needed to do on her end and in the first month we got her 23 cases. There was almost a hundred leads, 23 cases for $89,000. But she had the people she had. Every lead was answered and she went one step further.

Speaker 2:

That I really love and I will help other clients understand this. That I really love and I will help other clients understand this. It believe is disqualified. She asked them for referrals. Now I don't know that. I've heard of another attorney's office doing that and I'm like awesome. This woman is very interested in growing her business, but those are the types of things that we just can't guarantee are in an attorney's office.

Speaker 2:

So I know that what we're doing is training them. You know, teaching them. These are the things you have to be able to do to work with an agency, so that you know they do see success. I think you've got a great, a great program Well, thank you.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate it. It's been fun. It's been. You know, part of it is just realizing what you want to do and what you're good at and what your calling is, and just following it and having the passion to follow instead of doing the great thing that I'm doing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, especially having. I mean, you've seen this for almost 20 years. You've seen the marketing side of it, so I'm glad that you're crossing the street and helping the clients get better and understand what we're talking about. This is fantastic. I know somebody will want to reach out to you, connect with you, maybe talk about getting into your program. Where could they find out more about you or connect with you?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, best place would just be my website. It's my first name, last name, it's andresaboycom and you can Google me, you'll pull up. But you'll have right there it's the group program right there on the homepage. It's low cost. It's under $100 a month. You know the price is that way, so you're going to not have to be like, excuse me, something else in there. You're going to start just to get people in. I want to help a lot of people and open to see people in there and have any questions, reach out, get there. That's why.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, I'll make sure that that URL is in the show notes and your program is called Elevate Yep Elevate Okay, perfect, andre, thank you so much for your time. This has been really enlightening. I hope people reach out to you and get involved in your program. I'm excited about what you do.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, marilyn, I appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. I love talking about attorneys. It's fun stuff.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

Host