Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E54 Build A Predictable And Scalable Referral System with Devin Sizemore

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 54

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Ever wonder why your network isn't generating the high-quality referrals you know it should? The answer might surprise you. In this eye-opening conversation with connection expert Devin Sizemore, we uncover the fundamental flaw in how most legal professionals approach referrals and networking.

Devin reveals his Connection Expansion System that has transformed referral generation for professionals across industries. The breakthrough insight? Stop chasing clients directly and start connecting strategically with those who have access to your ideal clients. It's a subtle but powerful shift that removes the friction that typically prevents people from making introductions.

What makes this approach so refreshing is its focus on genuine relationship building rather than transactional networking. The system starts with a simple check-in email that puts the other person first, followed by structured connection meetings where you learn enough about them to actually add value. By controlling the elements you can control—consistent outreach, meaningful conversations, and strategic introductions—you create a referral ecosystem that works predictably and authentically.

The results speak for themselves. Within 6-8 weeks of implementing this approach, you can expect to see a significant increase in strategic introductions and referrals. As Devin shares, "In January alone, I personally sent out 100 connections and received 33 in return—that's 33 people on my calendar for February that I didn't have to chase."

Whether you're looking to reignite your existing network or build a powerful new one, this episode provides the exact scripts, meeting structures, and follow-up systems you need. Ready to become one connection away from transforming your practice? Listen now, take notes, and commit to just one connection meeting a day. Your future self will thank you.

Reach Devin here:

https://devinsizemore.com/
https://a.co/d/cKn1Mcd
https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpsizemore/

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My team and I are adding new content weekly so you can be intentional about your growth and development each week.

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming Devin Sizemore to the show today. Devin is the author of Connection Expansion your one connection away from massive success in your life and business. Devin is driven by passion for meaningful experiences, both personally and professionally. He has spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values. From launching his first marketing agency right out of college to creating innovative consulting practices and a cat cafe. His journey has been defined by a commitment to adding value and making a positive impact. As a firm believer in the power of connections, he's dedicated to helping others succeed through the art of building relationships. The next chapter of his life is focused on fostering a community where one million connections can create lasting, transformative change. I'm excited to have you here, devin, welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much. I'm excited for this conversation and, yeah, it's going to be awesome.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so tell I mean, you've done a lot of things what made you dive into this and work with connections and referrals and that sort of thing and build this book that we're talking about.

Speaker 3:

Yeah for sure. So yes, serial entrepreneur, I love business is how I used to introduce myself when I had my marketing agency. I found myself which many of your listeners probably going to relate in a crowded marketplace where I had to stand out. Right, there was so much noise, I was a voice of authority, but there were so many other players, and so you start exploring traditional avenues whether it's online marketing, web development, all these other things and I had to find a way to be different. I wanted to be an authority in rooms. My competition wasn't playing. So 15 years ago, the foundation of the system was born and it allowed me to explore and then refine. How do we build real relationships in a way that we can control everything and stand out?

Speaker 2:

Excellent, okay, and that's where now these days we're doing different people who obviously publish books for authority and podcasts and that sort of thing. What would you say? Somebody starting out? Obviously everybody loves referrals, right? That's the easiest way to make a sale. They come to you pre-sold. How do you get started?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So I tell everyone to start with the same thing. It's called the connection expansion exercise.

Speaker 3:

We have a lot of issues in the world of referrals, right, I call it the referral dilemma. We make a lot of asks but we don't get a ton of reciprocation, even if we're making connections or referrals with other people. And so a very small percent of your network or your current client base actually refers you. But, as you said, like, we want more of it because when it comes in it's a really high close rate. They already know, like and trust you. It's amazing, right. The issue is, when we go out there to our network and we ask, our ask is always benchmarked against our ideal prospect or prospect profiles. What that does is it sets the person you're talking to up to have to refer someone to you with the intent of them being sold. That creates so much friction in the introduction unless they've raised their hand and said, hey, I need you, like, I need your product or services. Hey, let me connect you guys. But that limits our network's ability to refer us.

Speaker 3:

So if we go to the connection expansion exercise, what we do through that is we stop chasing the client ask and we chase the people who have access to our clients. And so we go through an expansion exercise where we look at what vendors are our clients spending money with? What influencers? Who has authority over them? Where do our clients gather? Where do they seek education? Who's a general connector? Who knows everybody and who do our clients trust? Right? Those are typically advisor level worlds, so attorneys fit in that category. But financial advisors, cpas, account or who knows everybody and who do our clients trust? Right? Those are typically advisor level worlds, so attorneys fit in that category. But financial advisors, cpas, accountants, all of those people and we look at okay, we have this idea and we've gone through this exercise now, of all of these profile types who could have access to our ideal clients.

Speaker 3:

Now, which of those do we relate to, do we have easy conversations with? Does my background allow me to have a synergistic conversation? We identify two or three and then we shift our ask. And so, instead of you saying, hey, devin, who do you want to connect with? And I say I want to connect with people who want to build their network right, that would be my ask Great. Instead I would say you know, I want to connect with podcast hosts, event hosts, those people, because what I find is we can add value to each other's worlds. Now, instantly, you can go through your network and be like oh, I know a few people, you're going to make an introduction because there's no friction, right? You're not trying to position them to be sold, you're positioning us to have a strategic conversation. If I have that level of strategic conversation in every meeting, I'm having the high quality referrals start showing up.

Speaker 2:

But everyone rushes to the referral ask and they miss the relationship building part, right, because I think a lot of people want to move forward faster and I mean it's almost like natural to ask for a referral. That's going to be a sale. You know, you've got a happy client, you've got a case study, you've got you're over delivering. Ok, hey, do you know anybody else who could use our services? And yeah, I see where you're saying that's, that's going straight for the sale. So you're putting the weight on your, your customer or whoever's going to be sending that person through. I hadn't thought about it that way.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it creates unnecessary friction. The quote that I tell everyone to put on your monitor or somewhere around you is everybody wants to buy. No one wants to be sold, right, right, if we look at how the society works, we're all consumers, like we are taught to, consume. We don't need to to force people to buy our product, service Matter of fact. We can't they can't write a check. We can't like force their hand. We can make it easier and referrals held.

Speaker 3:

But often I'm on conversations and I hear things like look, I have like a pretty decent database, I have a network, but it's not doing much. Like it's okay, I'm getting a handful of referrals a month. Great, let's reignite your network by getting back into your network and having real conversations, adding value to the people in your network, training them to do what you want, which is to make some connections for them. And let's let your network start to get this wheel in motion. What happens is, six weeks into that process, you start to get the snowball down the mountain. Where connections are showing up, they're flowing in, and then what happens is the referrals start to follow. So you get the strategic connections, but the high level referrals show up Just this morning, before hopping on strategic connections. But the high level referrals show up Just this morning. Before hopping on six introduction emails in my inbox, four of which are prospective clients. Two strategy conversations would be great.

Speaker 2:

Four prospective clients this morning. Wow, yeah, that's absolutely impressive. I know a lot of people use LinkedIn to build their network and we're thinking that, say, an attorney, for being local businesses. So, thinking Chamber of Commerce, what are you thinking? As far as you know, so you're looking at not necessarily looking at somebody to refer you a client right off the bat, but you want to get your name out there like an authority building or the know, like and trust. Is that what you're getting at as well?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, for sure. And you can do it with your current network, whether it's one person or hundreds, which most of the listeners probably have a decent network and we're just going to reignite it so we can talk about that strategy. Or, yes, you can go network right. What I tell people is do whatever is comfortable. Stop doing all the things people tell you to do that aren is comfortable. Stop doing all the things people tell you to do that aren't comfortable. So don't create content if you don't enjoy it. Like it comes off fake, it doesn't work Right. If you don't like in-person networking because you want time with your family or you just don't want to be there, don't do it Right.

Speaker 3:

Find strategies to tap into the stuff you have available, or go to web conferences or go to masterminds or find other ways to get into groups of people. But even with just your current network, we can unlock a ton of potential. We just have to change the way we're communicating with our network. So lots of strategies Again, choose the one that's best for you to start conversations. The key is we need to get into what I call connection meetings. Realignment meetings can re-engage our network and get that relationship started again.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, let's do that. Let's talk about the reigniting. I'd like to talk about that a little bit further. How do we go about doing that? Because you know you can do announcements, like we call them, database reactivations, but those typically include some sort of offer. So if you're going to reignite your database or your network, how would we go about doing that? Just to raise the level of the conversation.

Speaker 3:

Love it. Yeah, so yes, you should be doing all the other things right. You should have offers, you should have invites, you should do newsletters. All those things are great for brand awareness. Here's how we do it when we're trying to nurture our network and get it reignited, and so this is my fast action exercise. So first, every day, I need you to commit to a certain number of people in your database that you're going to reach out to, right? So 1, 3, 5, 10, pick a number, whatever you think you commit to when you reach out to them, what you're going to do is, ideally, you're tracking them in some sort of CRM so we can follow up with them and create an actual nurture cycle. We're going to re-engage with them on social media, so we're going to go click on their Facebook, instagram, linkedin, pick your platform you're playing on. We're going to skim that, add a couple of comments and likes just to show them that we are committed there too. Then we're going to send them an email. This is what the email says. The email says hey Bob, I hope you're doing well and having a great day.

Speaker 3:

It's been a while since we last connected. Anything new and exciting in your world, any new challenges. I would love to schedule time to catch up with you so that I can realign what would be the best connections for you. Here's a link to my calendar. I look forward to catching up. That's it. That's our email script.

Speaker 3:

The email script works because it's all about the other person, right, and this is where so many people go wrong. And yes, in your newsletter, provide education and have calls to action, have a strong offer, all this other stuff. But if we're building relationships, it's not about you, it's about the other person, right. It will become about you as long as you keep it about the other person first. So if you can just send that email out again to one, three, five, 10 people a day to re-engage your network, what will happen is they'll start booking meetings.

Speaker 3:

If you're going to do in-person meetings, I recommend an hour. If you're going to do virtual meetings, 30 minutes is perfect, and then there's a format for that. We can talk about that in a second for how you do those meetings to really unlock the value. But that's all it is is. We're just going to reignite Every value. But that's all it is is we're just going to reignite. Every single person in my database gets a check-in email every six weeks. These are manually sent and it's the exact template I just gave you, every single person, because that's how we keep our network warm and we show that we're going to add value and we're trying to give to the relationship, not just take.

Speaker 2:

I love that. It definitely makes it not all about me. You want to help people grow. This system would probably work really well with. Have you heard of the Dream 100? So that type of thing? Some people call it a Dream 20, depending on what you're looking at. So using something like that, making it very not about me but about them and try to help them have, would you use something like that for a Dream 100 type of outreach?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So if I'm going to do colder outreach, what I'll typically do is very similar email script, but I'll say something like hey, amy, your name keeps coming up in conversation, so our circles are overlapped. I would love to get time on the calendar to catch up with you, to learn more about you. I'm an active networker, make a ton of connections. I'd love to be able to make connections for you. Here's a link to my calendar. It's all about the other person and even my event follow-up script says the same thing Everything is about the other person.

Speaker 3:

So often in sales and marketing we rush to position ourselves. It will happen In the conversation. They're going to ask what you do and you can reply in the most concise, direct way possible so you can position yourself for an opportunity, for a deal. But that's such a small part of the person we're meeting with, right, I want to tap into. What does their spouse do? What's their family do? What boards are they on? What networks are they in? How else could they open doors for me and help me right while I'm helping them? That's the strategy, right, and that's how we take our network again, even if it's 10 people, and we reignite it and we get them to start producing.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that sounds very interesting. I like the difference in the cold outreach but the building your network. I love that because so many of us have. We're using LinkedIn, we're getting our content out there at least our reputation out there so being able to do that. And, yeah, everyone should have a CRM that you can track that with. And I love that you're sending that every six weeks. So you're giving a touch every six weeks just to, because it could be a better time in six weeks for someone to respond to you than it is right now.

Speaker 3:

And it's always the same template. I have people who have received this email from me every six weeks for a decade and they're used to it, and what happens is about 30% of the people reply. Some will reply with hey, here's what's going on in my world, here's some links, here's some updates. Some will say like, yeah, I grabbed this time on your calendar. I look forward to catching up. I have new and exciting things. Oh, I just shifted companies or roles.

Speaker 3:

All these things you may not have been aware of, but because you checked in, now you can re-engage. One of my key principles with the whole system is control what you can control, and so often we do things we can't actually control and then we beat ourselves up because the response rate's not what we want. If we can get people into a meeting, that's where we have the most control, because we can ask a certain set of questions, we can re-engage and add value, we can re-nurture, we can do all these things because we're in a meeting. Everything else we do we're assuming the other person's going to respond in a certain way. We can't control any of that. So this strategy is really about like can you commit to doing one connection meeting a day, just one. Can we just add one meeting to your calendar where you're going to just build a relationship? If you can do that and we compound that for a year, this system will generate more referrals probably than you can handle.

Speaker 2:

Wow, yeah, I mean, anybody could commit to one a day, right? So in that meeting, so let's walk through a meeting, what would happen? So someone says, yeah, you know it's great, I grabbed your time on your calendar, can't wait to talk to you. So now, we're in the Zoom meeting.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, let's do it. Let's give you the real, exact flow. So this is the same flow I use. It's what I teach. We always start with current state and you're going to have to change the questions to your personality, right? You have to ask things that you're comfortable asking in a way that's comfortable for you. So always a disclaimer for that. But here's the flow.

Speaker 3:

The first bucket of time is current state. What are they doing? Who are they selling to? What are their services? You need to understand the game they're playing currently. And let's talk about the big outcomes. So in the meeting, you need to learn enough about the person to edify them properly. If you're going to make an introduction, right, hey, this is why so-and-so is amazing, right? So you got to ask enough questions for that. You need to understand where they're going and what's in the way so we can solve some problems, and you need to understand the types of connections that would be valuable for them. So those are the outcomes we're chasing. So, first, current state. What do you do? Who are you chasing? What kind of services? Let's realign that, even if this is someone you know really well. Then you just ask like, hey, catch me up, like, what's new and exciting in your world. Tell me about a new client you onboarded and why it worked. Great, right, whatever, that is Okay.

Speaker 3:

We then go backwards. Hey, remind me how we got here. Like, what's your story? Why did you end up being a pest control company, a CPA or whatever? The reason we go backwards is it shows us previous networks. It shows us opportunities where there might be things to connect with that we didn't know. Right, because we're only looking at their current state, not the past. From the past, we then move to the future.

Speaker 3:

Hey, tell me about where you're going. What are your big goals? What are you trying to accomplish? So now we're getting the person dreaming right, this is where I'm going, chasing revenue when I expand my team, looking to expand other markets all these things that start to show you OK, is this a super growth minded person? Are they stalled? Are they trying to work themselves out of the company?

Speaker 3:

All this information is great because it starts to let us know where they're going and then we ask what's in your way? What's in your way? So, what's in your way between the current state and the future? And they're going to tell you right, I can't find enough good people. Right, I can't keep my staff, my health benefits program sucks, whatever. It is right. So now they're telling you how to help them and it feels organic.

Speaker 3:

Sometimes your product or service might be the exact thing to help them, but not often, right? Often we're just looking for, okay, between here and there, who can I connect them with to solve some of those problems? And that's the flow of the meeting. So if you're doing this in a 30 minute meeting, that's about 25 minutes of questions. If it's an hour, you should be about 45 to 50 minutes. We only need a little bit of time at the end for them to flip the script and what will happen is they're going to ask you the same questions, but you get to answer them super quick. So they're going to be like oh my gosh, we're running out of time. Should we schedule more time? No, it's okay. What are you up to, devin? Oh, boom, and now you're just going to answer all those questions in rapid fire.

Speaker 2:

This is what I'm doing.

Speaker 3:

This is what's going on. This is what I'm chasing, and Nice, because you're prepared.

Speaker 2:

You're the one that organized the meeting, okay.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, we're controlling the meeting right, because if we control it, that's great. Bonus question at the end I always ask them who can I connect them with or what's a referral you're looking for? Always ask that question as kind of like a last question, because then it positions them to ask you the same question. So that's how we build the relationship and conduct the meeting. Again, stop talking about yourself. Ask them a bunch of questions, take a bunch of notes and then make sure you're positioned for the follow-up, which is where we're going to add value, we're going to make connections and we're going to really get this thing going.

Speaker 2:

So basically, you're working on the law of reciprocity. I want to give you, so you'll feel like the need to help me out as well.

Speaker 3:

But you start giving I'm going to overwhelm the universe, or whatever you want to call it, so that it has to produce. Yeah, and if we can stay down that path, it always works.

Speaker 2:

Well, and this is so you're thinking. So what we're talking about is setting this up and this is the long game. But by being consistent with these efforts you're going to see it in the not too distant future. You probably see, if you're doing one call a week, you should see some results in six to eight weeks. I would think you'd start having more conversations and more referral business. Is that kind of an average you think about or depends on kind of the niche?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it depends on how open your calendar is. So, and how engaged your network is, the more you do this, the quicker your network will respond. So my network will respond quicker than yours, just because I teach them Right. Right, but if you're starting, it should be easy to get people on your calendar, because you're going to go to people you know, like and trust first and just be like, let's catch up, like that's all we're trying to accomplish. You're going to get them into a meeting, right? So if you send an email today on whatever, right on a Wednesday, you may be able to get them on your calendar.

Speaker 3:

Next week. You have a follow-up meeting 24 hours after. We're going to make three connections for them. We're going to validate the meeting. This is what we talked about, this is what I'm doing for you, this is what you told me to do for me. Three weeks after that, we're going to check in with them. And so what happens is, if we meet that person next week, we're going to add value to them. Next week, three weeks later, we have permission to follow up on the connections and value we provided. And so now this person that was in our network with no direct communication is now re-engaged and realigned, you've added value and you have permission to follow up three weeks from now. So if you do that every day, what happens is, if you get out again at that six, seven, eight, nine week mark, is you're now engaging a new person, you're following up on the person you just met with, right, so you're adding value to them, and you're following up on that three-week check-in for aligned value, where you've already done your part, you've provided value, now you're checking in.

Speaker 3:

What happens at that three-week check-in is that's typically when they reply and go dang, that's right, I do owe you a connection, right, I owe you that thing. And then they typically will send you two, three connections. The better you get at this, you'll literally, in that last five minutes of the meeting, get connections directly in your inbox in the meeting. Like I will be on a meeting with someone and they'll be like I'm going to connect you with these three people and they'll either have their assistant instantly send intros or I'll see while I'm on my next meeting that those introductions are coming in, and so that compresses this timeline. But, worst case scenario, you're going to have these conversations, you're going to do your three-week check-in and within a month, you've re-engaged this cold-ish relationship.

Speaker 3:

That's not doing anything and you're training them to give you connections. Now, think about that with again 25 people a month, right. If we can do one a day, right, yeah. What does that do? Like, what does that do for your network? Because you're not doing that now, right? And if you are, you're probably talking too much about yourself, which doesn't allow you to add value to the other person and to train them to give you connections by you doing that as well.

Speaker 2:

Agreed. Yeah, that's that. I love that, because I mean just one meeting a day. Anybody can do that. It's just getting organized to actually do that and, of course, having your contacts in a CRM which, like I said, everyone should have, whether they do or not. They should be having a CRM to have everything taken care of.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and don't overthink that too. That'll be a disclaimer I give people. Your CRM only needs to track names and be able to assign a task. Everything else it will come right. Yes, there are reasons to automate certain things, not in this process, but in just the general nurture cycle and reach out. There's a whole lot of project management things you should be doing in your CRM. But if you can just have a contact and a task, the system works. If you can email out of the platform, that's a bonus, because at least you can track all your communication. But again, a name and a task, that's great. That's great. Don't go beyond that if you're just getting started, because it's really about the process more than refining and getting stuck in the technical.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I wanted to say that as well, because it is so easy to let technology be your excuse to procrastinate on the things that can really move the needle forward in your business.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't care if you get an Excel spreadsheet and you put their name in it and you just put the date that you emailed them, and then in the next column, you have your check, your six week check-in, and you're going to send them the email again if they didn't reply. You have your check, your six week check in, and you're going to send them the email again if they didn't reply. And it's fine. Let's just get this network that you've already built, that you already have reengaged, and all of this stuff works extremely well. If we're building a new network, going to network events and following up because at least we train them right the first time Right, but again, I'm betting, based on who's listening to this, you guys are all crushing it let's just have your network do by flipping the script and saying look, I'm going to give back, I'm going to add value, I'm going to take control of building these relationships. Therefore, in six, seven, eight, nine weeks, I'm going to start to see this machine flowing Right For the month of January 2025,.

Speaker 3:

I personally have sent out 100 connections and I personally received 33 as of today. Wow, that is 33 people that are on my calendar for February that I didn't do anything. I just got an email reply. It said here's my calendar link. Look forward to catching up. All 33 are going to book, because I'm edified, we're aligned and we're going to have strategic conversations. That's what happens as this machine goes, and what's great is it will just keep going right. The people will just keep producing. That's what I want you guys to build towards, because, yes, all the other things work Paid ads, seo, conversion, consultation, sign up that's great, but this is all about getting the machine to go.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the know like and trust factor from the network. I love that, wow. Okay, we all have our homework. Definitely get out there and do this. So I did notice that you. One of the things you talk about was how to leverage your book to build authority. Do you find that that's helped you by publishing the book, as opposed to just being a T? I'm not just being a teacher, but you went one step further and published a book on it. Has that helped you break it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah for sure. So, yeah, connection expansion, I'll give a real like. Let's give some real examples. So I got a text yesterday from a lady in my network, mary. We're connected on LinkedIn. We've met a few times over the last decade. She bought my book during the book launch and I got a text yesterday and she texted me and said hey, Devin, thinking about you, I'm reading your book Well on the treadmill, love the content. I consider myself a super connector, but I'm finding nuggets in here. And I saw I replied and said that's amazing, thanks for following up. And she said hey, per the book, why don't we catch up? I said, yeah, we should share the calendar link. She's on the calendar for two weeks from now.

Speaker 3:

So the book put me back onto someone's radar. That's one example. I also got a video email yesterday, right, Someone who recorded a video. I sent out to a referral partner a hardcover, a paperback and then also a copy of the million dollar book, because we do help people write and publish books too and he opened the package and sent me a video saying hey, I got it. Here's my feedback. I'm this far through the audio book and I shared your paperback with someone. I think really would be a great client for you. Here's their contact info. Just know that I'm sending them the book now.

Speaker 3:

These are just small examples of having a book. The book also helps me get on more stages. So, closing keynotes, opening keynotes, when we're negotiating event sponsorships, it's so much easier to get on the stage or have a giveaway. So every single person at conferences coming up gets a copy of my book or gets a copy of the million dollar book. There's so many reasons and ways to have a book and use it to solidify your, the authority.

Speaker 3:

And again, it's not about selling a million copies. That's great, right, that happens. It's about using the book as a tool to open and unlock some of these things. And then, as you're meeting people, it amplifies that because now, when I go meet you or after a meeting, I can put my book in the mail, signed copy with a business card saying hey, it was so great meeting with you. Here's a copy of my book. And now you are going to get another touch from me in three to five days, right, first class mail. It's going to show up and you're going to be like dang, like this guy or gal is adding value. So it's just an amazing tool it's. It's definitely one of those things that, like I wish, when I have my marketing agency, I had done a book for that. I wish I had done it when I was in the HR PEO space. There are so many case studies that I'm getting now having a book that again I wish I had leveraged a decade.

Speaker 2:

Right, right. Well, in this one you can see over my shoulder is my third. And you're right, it's, it's, this teaches all the things that we do about local visibility, right, Great ideas, things that you can do, and it's, it's the perfect, is the perfect giveaway, and whenever you want someone to remember who you were, you know, I agree it opens, opens doors and and it's not that big of a deal and it doesn't have to be a ginormous book. You know people think, oh, I gotta write a novel no, you don't.

Speaker 3:

Oh, let's talk about yeah. Can we talk about that for a second? Because there's two things I want to emphasize when it comes to that one. The thing I wish I knew is the cost of an author copy, especially if you go through kdp, through kind Direct Publishing. My book costs me $2.35 to order. Okay, what else can we give away for $2.35? It has as much value to the person you're giving to as a book. Nothing, zero. There is not one thing you can give away because this takes up real estate. It has an instant perceived value of $15, $20, $25, whatever your price for the book is and people don't throw books away it's going to take up real estate somewhere the nightstand, the, the, you know, on their desk in the office, somewhere. It's going to take up real estate for $2 and 35 cents.

Speaker 3:

So I have an event coming up for young entrepreneurship. I love entrepreneurs and so I told the lady. I said look, I know you, the speaker spots are already booked. Would you be okay if I donated a hundred copies of my book for your attendees? And she's like that'd be amazing. I'm like fantastic, I'll sign them and we'll give them to everyone that checks into that event. I'll get the books to you in the next week. So my investment for that is 300 bucks. Plus I have call to action bookmarks in there, so let's say $400 for $400. I'm getting my message into the hands of all those people. And her perception is and I'm sure she'll listen to this right, her perception is that I just spent $1,500 to support her event, right? Right, because her perceived value is 15, not the $2.35. Right, so that's the first thing.

Speaker 3:

The second thing is you'll notice this book, right? This is my book. It's 110-ish pages. When we talk about writing books for our clients all of our clients' books, we like to call them airplane books Super high value, easy to read meaning you can get through the book in two to three hours and a quick call to action so that you're adding value and can direct the person to take action. You don't want to write a novel or a really long book. What you want to do is write a quick, impact book that positions you as an authority and has a great call to action. Don't get bogged down. We all have read books where we put the bookmark halfway through, put it back on the shelf and don't finish. There's no value in that that's not a book that's going to actually generate revenue for you.

Speaker 2:

Right, right. I absolutely agree and it just makes such a difference to be able to do that. And you know I think shipped the most expensive out of I send them hardcovers. If I do bulk event stuff, I usually will do paperbacks.

Speaker 3:

But either way, like a $10 investment to have someone have a signed copy of your authoritative context in their hand.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, and of course you know you have ads or pages in there referring. You know, tell them to reach out to you. But it's a great tool and I agree with you. I think it's, you know, same as I'm not throwing a book away, it's one of those things that has a long shelf life, as opposed to a flyer or a postcard or something that you could mail in, a book just makes so much difference.

Speaker 3:

So absolutely yeah, then, right, like on the desk, real time, here's the books, right. And then I've got another stack because I have a book now, and so I have another stack of people who have sent me books. Because what happens is, when you connect with other authors, you swap books, right, it's fun and we all like content. And so now you end up with all these signed copies of books with if you're a nerd or a geek or whatever like me and love that, like I, have more signed copies of books than I can tell you.

Speaker 3:

And it's amazing, right, it's amazing right Like it's amazing that people send books, but that only happens because you have a book you can send them.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, and I'm in a mastermind that a lot of people they they publish a book for their, for their agency or for their clients and they all end up buying your book. You know everybody wants a copy of everybody's books. I love that, you know, and there's so much value in the book If a potential client can sit and read it and see how we can help them and they can do it themselves or give us a call. I love that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2:

We want to make sure that we put the link to your book in the show notes, since it is available in various formats on Amazon. That's fantastic. This has been a really great conversation. Let me ask you one quick question what's the one thing you want the audience to take away from this conversation today?

Speaker 3:

What I want you to take away is we have to build meaningful relationships if we want long-term success, and it can be done in very simple, very small actions over a long period of time. You don't need to be overwhelmed. You don't have to change the world tomorrow, but we can just chip away at it, and if we focus on actually being curious, adding value to people in our network, this will outperform anything and everything else you're doing.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. Well, I say, let's all get started and connect with the five people this week, Get it done and just start growing. Thank you so much, devin. Where can people reach out to you and connect with you if they want to do that and get to know you and get into your network?

Speaker 3:

Yes, Thank you so much for having me. Hopefully there were some nuggets here that add value to you and to your listeners. Devinsizemorecom, D-E-V-I-N-S-I-Z-E-M-O-R-E All my social links are on there. I also just recorded a webinar that talks through this whole system. That's available on YouTube. There's a webinar for the Connection Expansion System. Links to my book are on there. So many resources. I'm all about adding value. So poke around and I'm on every social platform. My handle on all of them is dpsizemore. So more so add, connect, shoot me a message, tell me how you heard about me and I'd love to connect with you and hear your story.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic, this is awesome. Thank you so much, devin. Thank you Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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