Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E62 Authentic Communication with Mario Wissa

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 62

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 Communication expert Mario Wissa shares his inspiring journey from his unique upbringing in Cairo to becoming a globally recognized communication specialist and author, highlighting the power of words to shape our world. 

 At the core of our discussion is Mario Wissa’s groundbreaking definition of communication as a continuous exchange of information, knowledge, and energy. He explains how our words shape reality through their vibrations—insight that can deeply impact how law firm leaders engage with clients, build teams, and shape firm culture. 

 Mario redefines healthy leadership through three key pillars: intentional creation, accountability, and understanding that everyone communicates as best they can. He challenges the traditional “swan model” of leadership, advocating instead for authenticity and vulnerability, arguing that pretending to have it all together can disconnect leaders from their teams. 

Using a story about stone chiselers with different views of their work, Mario illustrates how a leader's framing can completely shift team perspective. Are your people just handling cases, or building justice? His insights reveal how intentional communication can inspire purpose and transform leadership at every level in a law firm. 

Reach Mario here:

www.mariowissa.com

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Mario Issa, to the show today. I'm excited to have you here, Mario Welcome.

Speaker 3:

I am super stoked to be here. I don't know if you can see it, but I'm super stoked.

Speaker 2:

Nice. I know you have a really interesting journey that started back in Cairo, Egypt, about your leadership. Tell us a bit about your journey and how you ended up where you are today.

Speaker 3:

My goodness, I'll try and keep this concise for the sake of this interview, because let me tell you, in about seven months from now, I'm going to be 43 years of age, really old, 43 years of age, really old.

Speaker 3:

I love the laugh, I appreciate that I'm still young and I appreciate it.

Speaker 3:

So I was actually born and raised in Cairo, egypt, and I was born to a mother who did not even go to high school, but she was amazing with numbers and communication, interacting with people and cultivating customer service you know, interacting with customer service and a dad who was a monk before he got married, so he did not care so much for the world, he lived at church and all, and he got married to my mom. What I'm trying to bring up here is I have had the experience of two polar opposite parents in such a way, and 25 years ago I had the chance to come to the US to study English and communication. And fast forward 25 years. From 2000 to now, I have published three books about communication intrapersonal, intrapersonal and group communication and I actually literally traveled the world to speak about this. In fact, coming up in March 21st, I'll be traveling to Middle East and North Africa for about four years to just talk about that intentional communication and understanding ourselves and our clients and customers.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and that's fantastic, and so communication. And so what do you teach? You said there's three factors that you build into healthy leadership.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely so. First of all, we need to be aware. So when I do, I also do workshops and I call ICE it's just funny in the US, but I call it ICE workshop. It's a good name, it's Interactive Communication Experience. Okay, and one of the things I share Sorry, what's with my voice?

Speaker 3:

One of the things I share is what is communication? Okay, this is crucial, at least for me and many of the workshops that I do. So when I do a workshop, let's say I have 50 attendees and I ask them tell me what is your definition of communication? I give you 30 seconds, your definition of communication. I give you 30 seconds and if I have 50 different attendees, I get 50 different definitions and ideas of what communication is Okay. The interesting part is none of them is wrong. They just see it how they see it. So, based on my almost I've been saying 17 years of research I have been saying this for the last two years, so now it has been like 19 years as a researcher you get to a point in your life where where you actually find your own definition of specific terms and fields. So from listening to thousands of people, interviews and workshops, I got to a point where I cultivate my own definition of what communication is with issues. It's really crucial.

Speaker 3:

A lot of us see communication as like oh, I talk to you, you talk to me, oh, I don't communicate with you. That means we don't talk anymore. The way I see communication is a non-stop voluntary and involuntary process of exchanging information, knowledge and vibration. And oftentimes, when I bring this up this definition of like it's nonstop, voluntary and involuntary process of exchanging information, knowledge and vibration people go like communication knowledge and vibration. People go like communication Vibration. What's up with that no-transcript? And just speak out your name or say something. You will feel vibrations in your hand.

Speaker 3:

Communication is vibration, whether we are aware of it or not. Every single word, intention and sentence that we create it has a ripple effect. And that's actually the core part of what I'm doing Traveling world to remind people that words do create.

Speaker 2:

And words matter. We've heard that before and it does it Absolutely.

Speaker 3:

I love that you say that words matter, but I really have to take it to another stage and say words do create. If we stay silent for like four or five seconds, we don't say anything. Once we start speaking, we are creating. So I appreciate that you say words do matter, absolutely A hundred percent. In the meantime, words do create emotions, situations, feelings, connections.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, so how do you thinking about obviously being very purposeful about your words and your communication? Use that to build a better, healthier leadership.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely so. The moment I hear the word leadership, I think of clear distinction for me as healthy or unhealthy leadership. What does it even mean? Healthy leadership? Healthy leadership, based on three important factors. One is creating intentionally.

Speaker 3:

Being aware that when I exhale, that's when I create, that's when I speak. Most people are not aware that when we exhale, that's when we speak. If I try and inhale and speak, it's not possible. It's not like trying to inhale and speak, it's just not really possible. So when we exhale and use words, we are actually creating. When we exhale and use words, we are actually creating.

Speaker 3:

So this is very important to realize that we are creating something that did not exist before.

Speaker 3:

Number two, to realize that our creation it will be much healthier to, as we are creating words, opinions and sentences, to be responsible for this creation, to be accountable, not just to say, oh, he made me say this, she made me say that, they made me react this way.

Speaker 3:

I am responsible for what I am creating.

Speaker 3:

And number three is I actually learned this from my dad a long time ago and it became a lot more influential for me from my research is that every pingo person, that every single person, human being, is doing his or her best in how they communicate, and I think this is like perfect key point to plug in, especially for, like, a lawyer. That's why, like some people need lawyers to like, whatever thoughts and ideas you have, you need someone to interpret them and express them in a like, a better way in court, and so forth. So to realize that we are creating intentionally, to err subconsciously, and to realize that we are responsible for what we are creating, and realize that we are responsible for what we are creating, and also you be aware that our best can get better. Every person is doing his or her best, whether myself, my clients or even in a workshop. That's why, when I ask 50 different people what is their definition of communication, none of them is wrong because they're doing their best and they see it as how they see it, based on their experiences.

Speaker 2:

So how do you help people to get clear on their communication so that, like say, if they're leading a team, everyone knows where they stand? Is that what we're?

Speaker 3:

is that kind of a team, everyone knows where they stand. Is that what we're? Is that kind of Absolutely, Absolutely. So it's really crucial to understand this, is it sounds so simple? I think you might be familiar with that.

Speaker 3:

KISS principle K-I-S-S keep it simple, stupid. I have no idea how old this principle is, but it's still effective. The reason why I bring this up? Because to realize that we are dealing and communicating with other human beings. It helps us to cultivate and compassion those two Empathy and compassion.

Speaker 3:

As a leader I think most of us are familiar with this phrase I think you might be familiar with it as well as like leading like a swan. So as a manager, as a boss, you're just like you know your feet are like pedaling down, but swan looks so beautiful. Like you know your feet are like pedaling down, but Swan looks so beautiful and you know content and I understand and I like the idea behind it. Yet I have experienced for my own self from the managers and bosses that I've had in the past, when they show me their true side, the true human side of them, it brings me closer to them. So the idea of leading like a swan, like your feet, like pedaling down, but on top you look so calm, that's misperception. Most people want to see boss or leader struggle once in a while. They don't know how to fix something and they don't know how to face it and they need some help on the outside, when we are like managers which I have been in a position like this before when we behave like manager or boss and just like pretend, in a way that's actually doing disservice to our team as a manager, that I can show up to work and maybe on my face you can tell that I'm not having a good morning, or less. No, I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I did not start my day on the right foot, as some people say, and I'm trying to get out of this for the next couple of hours. When I get to work, my team can ask me like hey, mario, you look a little different today, you look different this morning. What's going on? I can just like put a smile on and go like, oh, nothing is wrong. I can just like put a smile on and go like, oh, nothing is wrong, everything is all right, which is, I'm denying them the opportunity to connect with me as a human.

Speaker 3:

For me, I say well, thank you for asking, thank you for noticing. I just I did not sleep enough last night. Or, I don't know, my car like, I don't know, I had a flat tire this morning, or whatever my issue that might be. Or, oh, my boss, I'm a boss, but my boss get angry at me. I did not meet the expectation or something. I think showing the humanity part of who we are and how we connect with other people is like super glue. And how we connect with other people is like super glue and I am not speaking this just from hypotheticals and my research. I actually I've had managers in the past who showed me what that means and that it didn't really lift. Mark me.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think you're right when it comes to showing your human side, being compassionate and empathetic not necessarily sympathetic depending on the situation, but being empathetic and that would be certainly a way of being able to communicate better with your team members and the people that work for you.

Speaker 3:

I like that. You. I'm just gonna if you don't mind me, I'm gonna have to capture this really quick because you said to help us to communicate better with our team. I have no problem with that. Yet I feel like it's not necessarily communicating better, but I feel like it's communicating authentically. It's a little bit different for me, communications by field right, the interview word really matters honestly, from my heart, as a service provider or even a customer or client or even a team member, to connect in a way that really, truly shows our humanity. Yes, let's be crystal clear. Some people might take advantage of that. It's very true. If you go to a car dealership, some people might take advantage of you being vulnerable and honest. We need to have a true, concrete and clear connection and communication as we are working on. Can I share with you something really quick? So I traveled India for like a year and a half ago.

Speaker 3:

Sure, north Freaking 2000s. It's like eight years ago and it's a really simple story. Ago and it's a really simple story, the story was there were a few people that were working on building a really amazing palace, okay, so someone walked by the workers and he asked the first worker who's working like chiseling the stones to build the palace, and they were asked what are you doing? And the first person said I'm just chiseling rocks, stones, that's all I'm doing. They said okay, and the person went to the next worker and asked like what are you doing? And they said oh, I'm doing what I'm doing to do. I was told to do this to just chisel stones and rocks. And the person who was asking the other two people as a third person, like what are you doing? And the same person, different person, doing the same job, chiseling stones and rocks. And the third person said I am helping to create the best castle that ever existed in this country for my owner.

Speaker 3:

So the point of this is yeah, so the point of this is like the same job, the same task, different perception. We need to be aware of that. Whatever we are creating for ourselves or connection with other people, how we label it which I'm very certain, you know of this how we label it, how we frame it, how we brime, it creates energy around it.

Speaker 2:

Right, very interesting. Yeah, that's deep. That's the way people look at it, and we want all of our team members, especially looking towards clients, to have that sense of pride and sense of like the third guy there. That really makes sense, because when people come into law firms, they're having one of their most likely lower moments of their life, and so that comes into the communication Absolutely Well. Very interesting, mario. I really appreciate you being with us and having this conversation today. If anyone wants to reach out and connect with you, where would be the best place for them to reach you?

Speaker 3:

Well, here's the good news I am out and connect with you. Where would be the best place for them to reach you? Well, here's the good news If people type Mario Wisa, m-a-r-i-o, w-i-s-a. On Google, all my networking social websites will come up and also my direct website, mariovisacom, where people can book like 30-minute session with me, free session 101, and other awesome stuff to do on my website. So I'll keep it simple for now.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. I'll make sure that that website is in the show notes and, again, this has been very enjoyable. Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today.

Speaker 3:

I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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