Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E65 Biz Law & Pro Bono to Keep Life Interesting with Elissa Hecker

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 65

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What truly protects a growing business in today's complex legal landscape? Attorney Elissa Hecker pulls back the curtain on the essential legal foundations every entrepreneur needs but often overlooks.

Celebrating 21 years as a legal solopreneur, Elissa offers a practical take on business law, guiding listeners through three key pillars: the right entity to protect personal assets, IP safeguards to grow value, and solid client agreements to avoid costly disputes. 

The conversation takes an eye-opening turn as Elissa shares a little-known fact: the U.S. Copyright Office doesn’t grant federal protection to content created through generative AI prompts. This leaves businesses relying on AI-generated material potentially unprotected if their work is copied. 

Beyond her expertise in business formation and IP protection, Elissa shares how dedicating a third of her practice to pro bono work—supporting groups from Dance NYC to animal shelters—"feeds her soul." Her story shows how lawyers can blend success with meaningful impact. 

What sets this episode apart is Elissa’s insight on growth: "You can do everything, just not all at once." It’s a reminder that sustainable success takes patience and strategy. 

Reach Elissa here: 

https://www.eheckeresq.com
https://linkedin.com/in/elissa-d-hecker-48467711

This episode is sponsored by Wealthy Woman Lawyer® 

Wealthy Woman Lawyer® is a law firm growth strategy and business coaching service exclusively for women law firm owners. Ready for a practice that funds your dream lifestyle and gives you time to enjoy it? 

Visit https://wealthywomanlawyer.com today.

Join our private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at
https://checkout.lawmarketingzone.com

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guests and Lisa Hedger to the show today. As general counsel to small businesses, solopreneurs and entrepreneurs in their legal and business affairs across the US, Lisa guides clients through strategic thought processes how to negotiate from a position of strength, protect their brands and intellectual property, set up their businesses and legal infrastructure so that they're protected, and works on independent contractor and employee issues. She also practices in the fields of entertainment, arts and book publishing, and is a repeat super lawyer, top lawyer and best lawyers in America. Elisa helps people make money and grow relationships. I'm excited to have you here. Elisa, Welcome, I'm excited to be here here. Lisa, Welcome, I'm excited to be here. Thank you, All right, Tell us a bit about your leadership journey.

Speaker 3:

Sure In becoming my own firm yeah.

Speaker 2:

How did you? You know we've talked in the past about how you chose your specialty. What made you pick business law? I mean you cover everything that helps people get started in law. How do you I mean get started in business? How did you choose?

Speaker 3:

that? That's a great question. I was associate counsel in house in a music agency for about nine years, right out of law school. I worked there in law school and then when I graduated, they created a position.

Speaker 3:

So one of the things I loved about being in a general counsel office is that and there were only two of us there, so it was really hands-on with everything it was everything from at that point. It was a music agency with licensing. It was the creative aspects of dealing in the music business. It was also reviewing the lease where our office was located. It was dealing with audits. It was dealing with human resources.

Speaker 3:

It was you didn't know what was coming across your desk at any given moment, which was what made it so much fun. So when I ended up going out on my own after about 10 years there, I was like this is what I love to do. I know I can do music law that's not an issue and entertainment, you know. Everything kind of grew from there, but the fact that I loved not having just one thing to do every day, but I could actually really work on 19, 20 different things during the course of the day, which really kept it interesting and I wanted to keep becoming more of a business generalist that way to help smaller companies really develop their legal infrastructure so that they can go do what they want to do Well that's fantastic, I agree.

Speaker 2:

I think that by doing so much, it helps keep your days interesting and it also keeps your experience more varied, so you can help different types of people.

Speaker 3:

I can't tell you how many lawyers now my age who feel stuck and they've been in big firms, they've had very successful careers, but they do the same thing every day. And I feel so fortunate because I love being a lawyer, I love my clients and I love what I do, and that's because what I do every day changes. It keeps it fresh.

Speaker 2:

That sounds great. I love that. So do you. You work nationwide right, not just?

Speaker 3:

in New York. Yeah, actually internet. I have clients all over the world, but mostly in the United States.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and how do you find those, or how do they find you?

Speaker 3:

Usually I've had my own firm. Now I'm in my 21st year as a solopreneur, so a lot of that has been relationship building. It's really ultimately that my favorite clients come as client referrals, because I'll have clients who are like you have to talk to my lawyer. That is my favorite. And then just through building relationships like having conversations with you, talking to people in networking groups, meeting people at conventions, talking to people on the airplane as you develop those relationships, those folks may not necessarily need my services, but their brother might, or their cousin might, or their best friend or someone they're talking to online at Starbucks might. So you just never know.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Okay, awesome. So then when you say that you help people make money and grow relationships, you do that for yourself. I love it.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I also like to connect people. Whether it's a client or someone I meet online or someone in networking. It's always like here's what you do, would this be a good referral person for you? So, whether or not it turns into business, I try to keep other people top of mind and try to keep myself top of mind, just to help along the way.

Speaker 2:

Okay, yeah, that's great Now when you're doing it. So then, what does the social media or AI play into your firm at all? And helping you be more efficient or getting your name out there? Not really.

Speaker 3:

There's a huge ethical scaffolding around attorney advertising in the United States and in each different state, so I've actually never advertised On social media. I'm active on LinkedIn in terms of professional issues and I edit an entertainment, art and sports blog and things like that. So when stuff goes up, I put it up there, but I don't advertise my services. Everything is word of mouth, okay.

Speaker 2:

I know that some states do have some very strict rules about that. So, and especially when it comes to referrals, so all right. So then, then let's think about a beginning of business. You're starting a business. What would be the top three things that you should have in place, either at the beginning or before starting a business that you would suggest?

Speaker 3:

Okay, so I'll have to answer like a lawyer. It depends whether you're doing it alone or whether you're doing it with someone else. The basic structure is the same, but I would say, before you even start, if you're doing it with someone else, with a partner or there's a collaboration to have a conversation about the business, about the plan, and then if you're solo or if you're with someone else or other people, establishing a business entity, so that would be an LLC or a corporation or something like that, because that way the business is the one who signs all the agreements that go forward, rather than individually for tax purposes. It's treated a certain way and your personal liability is not there unless you violate your fiduciary duty to the business, in other words, unless you do something that really that damages the business. If, god forbid, something happens and you get sued, your personal assets can't be touched your you know your kid's college fund, your car, your you know your house, things like that. If you have the corporate entity set up, you're in a really good space.

Speaker 3:

After that, I would say you want to start working on protecting your intellectual property, whether you're a service business or product business. You have branding, you have what's on your website, you have marketing materials. If you're a consultant or a coach, you usually have some sort of educational materials. Anything that goes into the value of your company should be protected either through copyright and or trademark law, as you're building your brands, you know, depending on the timing, we would have a conversation about that. And then again, if you're a service-based business, it's good to have something like a master services agreement, because very often service-based businesses have term sheets or like deliverables but no actual protections.

Speaker 3:

How do I get paid? When do I get paid? How are things defined? What is our relationship going forward? So that's a really important thing. And if you're selling products, what are your warranties? What are your representations? You know the same kind of thing, the agreement you have with your consumer. Those are really good things to set up, because those set up the expectations and the obligations between you and your client or you and your customer, so that people understand exactly what they're getting from you.

Speaker 2:

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. So it'd be like, if you're online, it'd be like in terms and conditions, something like that.

Speaker 3:

In terms and conditions or terms of service on your website and then, if you're collecting information, your privacy policy, which is very important too.

Speaker 2:

Now think of a contract. So no matter what business you're in, you've got contracts with clients or the people you do business with. If you haven't had those reviewed in X number of years or I guess the question would be how often should you have your contracts reviewed?

Speaker 3:

That's a very good question. Again, it depends. Did you have your contracts drafted by a lawyer to begin with? Are you in the same area? Because very often what I'll do for my clients, for example, is give them, for example, if there's a master services agreement, I'll say I'm giving this to you. This will become your template. You can use this, change it in A, b, c, d, depending on your clients and the specifics, but you don't have to rewrite the contract every single time, and it makes it easier and more affordable, especially for a small business or a solopreneur, an entrepreneur, not to have to recreate the wheel every time.

Speaker 3:

If you have a contract that you got from an online service or that you cut and pasted from various different places or it's not necessarily, you know your brother might have written it at some point, but your brother might be I don't know why I keep going back to brothers but your brother might be, you know, a real estate lawyer, but you're, you know, a business consultant. There may be things missing or lost in translation, and I would say it's really important to have an attorney get it, review it, draft it. Whatever it is for you, for your business. So if it was done in the beginning like the right way. Then you know it's nice to check in with your attorney every so often saying, hey, is there anything else?

Speaker 3:

Or sometimes there may be a change in circumstance where a client will ask some questions and you may want to go back and say like, is this? I have this all the time. Is this okay? Is that okay? How is this for us? They want to change it, can we do this? And then I'll go back with like a risk reward analysis, like yeah, that's fine to change. Or you may want to stick tight to this and here's why. So they can go back and talk to their clients about it and be fully educated. Or absolutely not, don't change that. That's really harmful to you.

Speaker 2:

So it depends. Yeah, okay, that's fantastic Because I know that I've spoken with some people that are still using contracts than you used, like 10 or 15 years ago. Sometimes that's okay.

Speaker 3:

I mean if it's a good contract and the services really haven't changed, that's actually the base mark of a good contract. But there may be other things, like there are certain businesses now dealing with ai issues, like if, for example, you're in book publishing or anything in entertainment and stuff and there are new clauses that are being drafted daily about ai, you want to make sure that that's included in there, things like that. Or if there are children in the law anywhere relating to your business, that that should be in there.

Speaker 2:

I see, and now going back to Aon, we're seeing all this new creative stuff happening with Aon, not just book publishing but art and the like. How are you seeing? Are you helping those artists with trademarks or any of that? How is that playing out?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, with trademarks, with licensing, with copyrights. It's interesting because the US Copyright Office has said that you cannot get federal protection under the Constitution, under the Copyright Act, if something's created through generative AI prompts, it's really depending on the amount of human interaction. So a lot of folks are creating art or creating music or creating, you know, writing things, and they don't realize that they can't protect what they're doing. So if they put it out there and they're building a brand around it or they're doing things and it gets copied, there's no way for them to protect it, which means there's no value in it for their business.

Speaker 4:

Like in their marketing materials too.

Speaker 3:

You have to be really careful because sometimes also, if you're generating something, you're putting something in input. It comes out as someone else's output. There could be things that are substantially similar, but you can't sue on that and you can't send cease and desist letters and you can't say you have to stop using it because I own it, because you don't, so it's. There's a lot of stuff about that. And same thing going in if you're, if you're being commissioned to do something, whether it's music or art or a book or anything like that. A lot of times if I'm drafting on the part of the commissioning party, I'll say nothing has been created by Aya, except maybe ideas, because I know that what I'm getting from you then won't you know? I need to know that it's original. And the same thing for the creators. We're putting in a lot of clauses saying what I'm creating now will not be used for training purposes, for generative AI. You're not going to use it to scrape, to train that. There may be an output like my stuff later on.

Speaker 4:

Right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, and that does come into play because there's so many that were not in the public domain, books that were used to train these larger language models, and there's actually in the newest update of Microsoft Word. You specifically need to go in and turn off the prompt that says you can use all of my documents to train your AI.

Speaker 3:

Which is scary it is. You have medical records, you have personal information. You have all sorts of things out there.

Speaker 2:

Personal letters, all sorts of things. I publish my books on Amazon, KDP, just so they're easily available, and a lot of people do that. And I guess about six months ago or maybe a little bit longer, they added a question Did you use AI to build any part of the book? And then they qualify that I think there's three different qualifications about how much you used it. So that's quite interesting as well. So it's. I didn't realize you couldn't copyright those types of things. Yeah, that's quite interesting. Now, thinking about trademarks, are you working with any influencers? I know you're involved in Dance NYC and you do a lot of pro bono work. Does the influencers or any of the entertainment play into that as well?

Speaker 3:

oh, yeah, for sure. I say I represent folks from like spokesmodels and and there's two veterinarians. You know it's like everybody, regardless of the business, a lot of the the same. As I was saying, like the legal infrastructure is the same, it's just knowing how to work in the creative industries and knowing how to work in the straight business industries.

Speaker 2:

I guess they all need contracts that you have to deal with. Yep, exactly, exactly, yeah, wow, that's interesting. So tell us a little bit about your, the Dance NYC. I know you, you know, do you want to talk about your pro bono work? And one of the things that we talk about on the podcast is what you do outside of work or volunteering and any of those kinds of things that just helps enrich your life. So I know this would be a big part of what you're doing.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because about a third of what I do is actually pro bono work and that's what feeds my soul. So I'm working with a lot of organizations. Dance NYC I was chair of the board of directors for 12 years and involved with it for, I think, 15 years and it's an organization that represents the dance field in the New York metropolitan area in any kind of way and that's very close to my heart area in any kind of way and that's very close to my heart. But I also represent everything from animal shelters to LGBTQ plus organizations, cancer organizations, like you name it, any kind of nonprofits.

Speaker 3:

Very often in like their business kind of functions, contracts, a lot about trademarks and I love to do that on a pro bono basis because they can't really afford attorneys. Or if they have like an attorney or two on their board, it could be again, like I was saying in the earlier example, it could be a real estate attorney, it could be, you know, a corporate attorney but doesn't understand if we're doing trademarks, like what that means. So they're able to step back and be board members and I can come in and help them with what they need specifically.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I love that, and so that that plays into your interest as well as your knowledge. I love that and I love that, knowing that you have something that feeds your soul. Well, let's go back to your. In the beginning, you said you worked in a, in a music agency or a firm for nine years. Was that, I like to ask, if you've ever hired a coach, or how you excelled in what you're doing? Would you consider that a mentor, growing you into what you wanted to be? Did you work with a business coach?

Speaker 3:

For sure. That's an excellent question and one that I recommend to everybody I know coming up in the corporate world to find a good mentor. I did not work with a business coach per se because throughout the years I worked I had really excellent mentors in the areas where I was working in the corporate world who, even though working in the music business as a young woman at that time was not the best environment for being a woman, I had great mentors who really lifted me up and really enabled me to be part of everything, so I was able to get the experience. And then I also saw the importance later on when I had folks underneath me to be part of everything. So I was able to get the experience. And then I also saw the importance later on when I had folks underneath me to show and give those opportunities, and they were really good role models.

Speaker 3:

For that, I think having a business coach is an extraordinary gift you can give to yourself as you're working up as an entrepreneur, because no matter how great you are at what you do, there's always more like you don't know what you don't know, and there are some wonderful business coaches who can really focus in on the issues. That again similar to what I do. It's like having your, your army, your close advisors, your round table, whatever it is that you want. You're like your knights of the round table saying I have my business coach, I have my lawyer, I have my accountant, I have my insurance person, I have my people who help protect me in what I do, and I know some great business coaches who have business coaches, because it's very easy to coach someone else. But even though you know what you should be doing, you need some accountability and fresh ideas. So it's. I'm a huge proponent of it and I recommend that to so many of my business clients.

Speaker 2:

I absolutely agree. I wouldn't hire a coach that doesn't have a coach. I mean it just, it just makes sense. It's kind of like buying time right You're, you're moving ahead faster and and my coach has a saying that you know you can't see the big picture when you're in the frame.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and it's an investment in your business's future, exactly, and also it's also such a nice personal relationship that you're able to have. You're talking about work, but you're also talking about how does this fit, like you're saying big picture, but how does this fit in my life? What do I want, what are my goals, which is something that a lot of people especially. If you're building a business in the first couple of years, you don't have time to stop and think about it.

Speaker 2:

Having a business, coach makes that so much easier. Yeah, and I think having someone that's that's seeing the big picture when you're in a struggle, whether it's a struggle with growth or a struggle with just any kind of struggle having someone outside to to analyze and that you can trust and have that conversation with. I I highly recommend having a heavenly coach and even, in addition, joining a mastermind.

Speaker 3:

I was going to say the exact same thing having a group, because to to know that you're, as a solopreneur, for example, or an entrepreneur, you're often feeling alone, and to have that mastermind group where there are other people who may be in completely different businesses but they're feeling the same way you're feeling, and it's a great energy kind of pull where you can, you know, back and forth with each other.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and very like a member of our group calls it coming in open-handed like you're, you know you do. A third of your work is pro bono, by being ready to share and share the experiences or share even the tools that you've come across that help make your life better or your business life better. So that's definitely advanced.

Speaker 3:

It is.

Speaker 2:

It's very collaborative. I love that. So I mean looking at your work-life balance. You do pro bono work, you help clients all over the world and you're doing something different every day. I love that. If you could look at that, tell our listeners, say anything you want them to take away from this. What would be your thought that you'd like them to take away from the call?

Speaker 3:

I would say set you Okay.

Speaker 3:

So this is advice my mom gave to me when I was young and going to take over the world and everything, and she always claims that she didn't come up with it, but it has resounded with me explicitly you can do everything, but you can't do everything all at once, so you need to have the time to take it.

Speaker 3:

So plan out what you want and, by the way, when you're starting a business, what you want now is going to look completely differently in five years and in 10, like you won't even know what the opportunities are and the challenges that are ahead of you and how you may use this horrible word pivot. You know things like that. So be aware and I know that this is trite but be aware of opportunities when they're there and take them. You know, don't be so laser focused on what you think is your ultimate goal If something else, like you don't know who's going to open your door or who you're going to see or who you're going to bump into on the street or where you're going to meet on a train. And be nice to the clerks, to the secretaries, to the flight attendants. Just be kind and just lead with respect, and I think that everything else flows from there.

Speaker 2:

I absolutely agree. I love that you said be kind to people. I was in outside sales years ago in another life and I show up. The guy I'm supposed to have a meeting with is running late. I'm sitting out front talking to the lady behind the desk. Turns out that was his mother.

Speaker 3:

Ah so I mean we had a lovely angry and annoyed, and you were so lovely and pleasant.

Speaker 2:

I just was thinking. You know you've seen these terrible TV shows where somebody walks in and they're just incredibly rude to the you know the front desk person or the waitress, but yeah, you never know who you're talking to, so it's always good to be kind. Well, I love what you're doing and I love the way you're doing more and working with people all over the world on their trademarks and their businesses has been great. I worked having you here and now thinking about our listeners. If anybody wants to connect with you, have any questions, where can they reach you?

Speaker 3:

Sure, thank you so much. My website is eheckeresqcom, so that's E-H-E-C-K-E-R-E-S-Qcom. My email is eheckeresq at eheckeresqcom. So it's long but it's not terrible and I'm always happy to take questions and see if I can help anybody.

Speaker 2:

Fantastic. We'll make sure that that's in the show notes and people can reach out to you. And again, thank you so much for being here. This has been a great conversation, so much fun.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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