Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E75 Level-Up Your Team with Traci Austin

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 75

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Traci Austin brings her two decades of HR leadership expertise to tackle one of the most challenging aspects of law firm management: leading diverse teams effectively without micromanaging. Her refreshing approach centers on a powerful principle: "I can't lead you the way I need to be led. I need to lead you the way you need to be led."

The conversation delves deep into the practical applications of this philosophy, exploring how understanding individual behavioral styles transforms team dynamics. Traci explains how personality assessments, such as the Predictive Index, can reveal crucial insights into job fit, team fit, manager fit, and culture fit, as well as the often-overlooked "season of life" factor that influences performance and motivation.

For law firm owners struggling with quick but error-prone team members, Traci offers a game-changing framework for breaking projects into smaller pieces with clear quality benchmarks. This approach honors an employee's enthusiasm while ensuring client deliverables meet standards. She also shares practical strategies for documenting expectations and creating SOPs through simple video recordings, making it easier to translate visionary leadership into detailed execution.

Perhaps most valuable is Traci's "Tough Talk Audit" system for navigating difficult performance conversations. Rather than avoiding these crucial discussions, she outlines a step-by-step approach that captures facts, establishes mutual goals with deadlines, and creates documentation through follow-up emails. Her role-playing demonstration shows how even complex performance issues can be addressed constructively when approached with the right framework.

Reach Traci here: 

Website: https://elevatedtalentconsulting.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/traci-austin
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/elevatedtalentconsulting
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/elevatedtalentconsulting
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@elevatedtalentconsulting
Podcast: https://elevatedtalentconsulting.com/podcast-2/

This episode is sponsored by Wealthy Woman Lawyer® 

Wealthy Woman Lawyer® is a law firm growth strategy and business coaching service exclusively for women law firm owners. Ready for a practice that funds your dream lifestyle and gives you time to enjoy it? 

Visit https://wealthywomanlawyer.com today.

Join our private community, Law Firm Growth Guild, Your Shortcut to Marketing Mastery and More Clients at
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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, tracy Austin, to the show today. Tracy is a transformational leadership strategist and the founder and chief talent officer of Elevated Talent Consulting. With over 20 years of HR leadership experience, she specializes in helping construction and skilled-trained businesses build high-performing teams and develop the next generation of trade leaders. Tracy partners with business owners, project managers and field leaders to tackle the toughest workforce challenges, equipping them with the tools to lead with confidence, retain top talent and create worksplaces where people want to stay. And as the host of the People's Strategy podcast, tracy delivers no-fluff, real-world leadership insights tailored to the trades. A sought-after speaker and advisor, she provides practical strategies that work on the job site, not just in theory. Whether teaching foremen how to handle tough conversations or helping business owners shape a winning culture, tracy is the go-to expert for companies that want to elevate their leadership and build a future-proof workforce. I'm excited to have you here, tracy, welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I'm excited to have this conversation. Tell us a bit about your leadership journey.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. So. You know my journey, I think, like several of ours. There's several stops in it and you know that journey was 10 years in nonprofit organizations. I got my nursing home administrator license was playing in nursing homes for a while. I do have clients that do run small law offices, and so you know that really brings in that depth and breadth, you know, and what's so interesting about that journey is it really comes down to communication and connecting with the folks that are in front of us.

Speaker 2:

Exactly, exactly, and I understand you know you do want to specialize in a certain niche. That's great, but what you're talking about is you can get the people on the job site to communicate and become better leaders and a better workforce. The office is absolutely something you can handle, so I'm excited to talk a bit about that. So you do work with law firms and other people, but you do the marketing towards the trades.

Speaker 3:

Correct Yep absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Excellent, so I'm not one to micromanage. Hey, I want to hire an A player, make sure they do their job and I don't have to follow up on them all the time, right? So how do you inspire a team to work harder without micromanaging?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and I think that this comes down to who are the people that we're working with, and so one of the tools we use is a tool called Predictive Index. I don't care what tool you use, but really getting to know who your people are. We all have different behavioral styles and I can't lead you the way that I need to be led. I need to lead you the way you need to be led, and so really understanding who the people are that we're working with will tell us how they need to be led. And what I hear you say is I don't like micromanaging people, right, and I don't either. You know, we have a joke amongst my team which is you know, tracy, you give us, you know, something to do, and you think you have, like, all this clarity in it. There's a Grand Canyon size gap of between what your vision is and what the steps are to get there, and I go yeah, I'm a visionary, right, much like you are.

Speaker 3:

So you know, the key here within this is really understanding what your people need, and for me, a lot of times I have somebody in between who can see the vision, but they can also translate that to folks that need the step-by-step and so that knowing who's on your team and having that match to the job that they are doing.

Speaker 2:

Excellent, yeah, we did. We took the step of after thinking about it for a while and let it seem like an overwhelming task. We did SOPs for everything and it was as simple as recording each task. You know your brain goes, oh, that's a huge hill to climb, but it's really not, because you do this all the time. So that's been helpful for my visionary to say OK, we did that as a video, so go once that video and you know what I want.

Speaker 3:

Yeah for sure I love the mindset you just brought forward, right Like the mindset was this is a huge task and in reality, we're just creating the videos of what we're doing, and that key part of leadership is what are our thoughts about things? Right, and the same with our employees. You know who we're working with. Is what are those thoughts? Because so often it's this doom and gloom, everything's. You know who we're working with is what are those thoughts? Because so often it's this doom and gloom, everything's you know awful bad, not working well, and it's like is it really?

Speaker 2:

yeah, let's get the facts around it you know, they say that they had an elephant, one bite at a time. You can't look at a project as being all of that. If you take the time to even like journaling, using it as a journaling product. What are the steps to make this happen? You know, one thing I'm struggling with right now is I've got a fabulous pay player that is so excited with a task especially you know for, but they deliver so quickly. There's mistakes, yeah, but they want to get that, get it delivered. Look how good, look how. And you're like okay, I need to take a brand. So I'm kind of working with that. In almost probably 50% of projects Now they're relatively new hire. It's exciting to see them developing, but they're wanting to deliver so quickly. But I mean, how would you handle something like that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know. And so it's looking at and saying you know, there are kind of two pieces to this. You know they're seeing that there's a deadline and it has to be hit by the deadline, but yet there's, you know, it's like the quantity and quality piece right, there's a quality to this that we also have to hit. So in that situation, a lot of times what I'll do is I'll break down that project into smaller projects, because typically projects build right Like you need one piece of it before you get to the next and the next. And you know, I think an example I'll bring in is when I was working with a number of these law firms.

Speaker 3:

One of the things that you know they were really frustrated on is things not getting done well, but also the conversations and the customer service that needed to happen with the clients. And so we really defined what that customer service was. So we defined the project, then we defined the key pieces of the project, and that customer service had to go back down into the granular detail of what are we pulling in for the information at the front end. So let's say that this is a divorce attorney and you know we have to do all of our discovery up front. You know what information is that person giving out up front and let's break that down. Let's ensure that we've got that process. Let's try it on two or three clients. Now we're going to move on to the next thing. Then they're getting the feedback that they're doing the things well right away and we can know that that's done before we go to the next stage.

Speaker 3:

Otherwise, this let's just hit a deadline and do it as quick as possible. Well, we missed steps two through eight as possible. Well, we missed steps two through eight. Yeah, 12, 17 and 22, and I know you got to 40.

Speaker 2:

But now we have to go back and redo everything because those key pieces were really important in getting to the end no, that's interesting because it is it's delivering creative, so it is, there is always, there are always steps in it, so, so that makes that makes a lot of sense. I will work on that because I mean, I'm I'm excited about the, the, their motivation and their creativity. It's just okay, there's not a. The deadline is Friday, right, you don't have to deliver on Tuesday just to say, well, cal FASA did it.

Speaker 3:

Right, and I would get curious there and wonder okay, like, is there other things that they don't necessarily know what they're doing, or are they really passionate about this? And they're a type of person that needs to do one project, complete it, do the next project, complete it. And that's where really getting to know what they are and what their personality styles, whereas you and I, I think we've got 10 projects going at once so we can add four more to it. We're good with that, right?

Speaker 3:

Right, right but everyone works that way. So, understanding what that is and almost giving permission into that process as to what do you need? And here's what I need and here's where we can have some of those conversations, because it may be some unblocking to ensure we're not missing those key pieces, especially as creatives, when they're first learning you and your brand and all the things about it. There's a lot.

Speaker 2:

Yes, true, that is true, and they bring so much more to the table. As far as you know, I can tell them what I envision. They make it happen, so I appreciate each member of my team. Make it happen, so I appreciate each member of my team. And speaking of that and going back to how you like to be led, did you encourage any assessments, like personality assessments before or, if you're just now approaching this, maybe having your team each do one and so you have more a grasp of what you're working on?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I would highly recommend doing assessments. Like I said, we use predictive index in our firm. You know there's ones you can use for hire and ones you can't. Predictive index you can use for hire, Colby you can use for hire, DISC you cannot right.

Speaker 3:

And so you know, the key here is you're matching it to the job to be done and then you're also using it through the organization and so, based on your size and needs, you know would bring up a different recommendation from me, you know. But you know, like I said, pi is the one that I use and there's definitely others as well.

Speaker 2:

At least you have an idea of how someone likes to be led, what makes them? Because I know that you work on your system works on four keys, because I know that you work on your system works on four keys, right. So we're talking job fit, team fit, manager fit and culture fit. Now, a lot of that would come from the assessment. Is that?

Speaker 3:

correct. Yeah, yeah. So some of that does definitely come from the assessment and I say yes and right, yes, we pull from the assessment and there's other pieces to it, and there's actually a fifth one that I throw in there, and I'll talk about that one in just a second. But job fit, so fit to role. If we think about that, it's like two sides of the same coin, right? Like we don't want something from one country and something from another country. It's not going to fit right.

Speaker 3:

And so it would be like putting me into a role that is an accounting role that's very, very detail oriented. It has very strict deadlines. You know, there's a lot of kind of data pieces and fact finding background that you need in order to do that, you know, whereas that wouldn't work for me at all, right, like it would be a horrible fit, right. But yet I did payroll for seven years and it's like, well, how could you do payroll? But yet that's not your personality, right?

Speaker 3:

Well, I did it because I was in a season of life this is, you know, driver number five. I was in a season of life where I was climbing that ladder, right, and I knew, for the role that I wanted to be in, I had to have that skill set. I knew I didn't have to do it forever, and so, with that being said, you know it is important to kind of look at those key pieces, especially for somebody that's growing in their role. That may be in a role temporarily, that isn't ultimately aligned, but we know where they're going, so that motivation is there to drive it pretty hard.

Speaker 2:

And so yeah.

Speaker 2:

So I like that, that thought process. So you're getting someone in there like there's things and my assistant has helped me so much from this there's some things that you don't want to do or you don't enjoy doing, and there's someone in this world that enjoys doing so it's, you know, when she sees things on my calendar that she could do, she is the first one to say you know, you shouldn't be doing that. So that that's been a lot of the I think the the seat fit. You know, being able to, you know, get those things off your plate is how do you, with help, I mean, you know what kind of, what kind of assistance or advice would you give someone to make sure to be able to see that you have the right butts in the right seats?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So there's a couple of key pieces there. One is you know, I do highly recommend doing assessment that compares the job to the person, because you're just going to be able to see so many items and just have much better conversations. You will also now have a grounding so that you can have some of those coaching conversations when you need it, you know. The second piece around kind of you know the right person, the right role is really clarity. Clarity around the outcomes, not so much around the how we talked about we don't love micromanaging but the clarity around the outcomes and what does winning actually look like, so that we can ensure that we're all moving towards that kind of right outcome. And that's a key piece of that. Of course, we have the knowledge, the skills, the abilities. You know they need to show that they can do that or that they can learn it quickly based on where they're at.

Speaker 2:

And do you encourage finding out what are your goals? What do you? What does winning look like to you? I mean, how do you look at? It's not really future pacing, it's just knowing what you're working with and what are they happy. I mean, how do you keep tabs on something like that? Is that something that you can advise on?

Speaker 3:

So we you know, one of my favorite questions is what is a work bucket list item for this?

Speaker 4:

year.

Speaker 3:

Because it can really tell you what they're interested in. You know, I just had a conversation with all the team members of a client and that was one of the key questions I always ask in every stay. Interview on an annual basis is something that I do for a number of clients. And you know, hey, what is? What is that work bucket list for this year?

Speaker 3:

And she's like you know, I really want to get into event planning and I really want to expand the administrative work that I'm doing truly into some of the event plannings. For one of the conferences that we're doing, I said, okay, awesome. And then I started. I said, what's a personal bucket list item that you have? And she's like you know, I've been to X number of States and I really want to go to a warm weather state. I want to do X, y, z and I go aren't you guys holding a conference in San Diego? She's like yeah, and I go are you going? She's like I don't know. I go. Well, why didn't you? You know, why don't you ask about that? You know? So some of those questions are hey, how can we start to build some of those things together? We are the same pot of soup at home and at work, right?

Speaker 3:

And what are those things that drive us and for your leaders listening in, you know what are those things that drive your employees and there's ways to to kind of incentivize like, hey, let's have her come to this conference. It expands what she's doing and it will actually help her do her job better because she'll have a better understanding across training of what coworkers are doing. That will support her, especially in some of the billing and other things that she is doing from the accounting side. And so you know, there's times that we really can reward some of that great work with things that allow an individual to grow and allow the organization to expand. And again, does that individual have to have a great performance ahead of time? Of course, right, like those things are absolutely there.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Well, share a work bucket less than personal bucket. Once, I've never thought about asking that is. That's very good, all right, and we do from time to time have team members that are either not working out or something's come up and there's and we have to have a hard conversation, whether that's to put them in training or you know whatever you call it. Right after whatever, how do we do that? Something called our tough talk audit, right, you know.

Speaker 3:

but before you walk into that tough conversation, you know, really get the facts. What are the key facts of the situation? And I will tell you that this is where leaders get so hung up, because we tend to wrap stories around facts and make it very different than what it actually is, Right?

Speaker 3:

So what are the facts that are specifically happening? And I'll throw my HR hat on and my compliance hat on and say we need to have documentation, Right? So when you're pulling those facts together, now you have the documentation. Because the question that's going to come is did you train them? Did they know what was expected? How did they know what was expected? You know it's like, if it's not in writing, it didn't happen. So how do we ensure that these things are in writing? Guess what? We do it by signing the job description. We do it by having the employee set their goals on a quarterly basis. So, hey, what are your? You know what are your three work goals for this quarter, Of course tied to the job description, and you have the ability then to shift those goals a little bit, especially if they don't align with what the organization is working on. Now we've got in writing what their goals are and, again, we need to make sure we write our goals so we actually know if it's done or not.

Speaker 2:

Yes, that's true.

Speaker 3:

You know. So now we've got our goals. So now we're going to sit down and we're going to have the conversation. And guess what? You can have this conversation even if you don't have those things written down, because we're going to start getting it in writing. And so, you know, we're going to walk into that conversation with an intention. That's step one, step one. What is your intention, right? So that intention is, you know, we're looking to bring awareness to the performance, to hit X, y, z, and with that we want to. You know, the intention is to support that individual through it. So that's our intention, right?

Speaker 3:

We're going to set the tone of the conversation so that that individual feels heard within it. And then we're going to, you know, ask some questions and name the facts. I'm going to really listen into what is underneath that. And then what we're going to do is we're going to set some mutual goals. And so what can we mutually agree upon? And once we've determined what we can mutually agree upon, you know we set what will be done by when. So often we miss this. By when?

Speaker 3:

You know, what must be done by when, and then, once that's done, you know, I start where we'll send the email to begin with, but we get to the point where the employees start sending the email. We'll send the email to begin with, but we get to the point where the employees start sending the email, so it's an email follow-up from the conversation. You know we met today around about blah, blah, blah. Here's the three things I committed to do for you by when, and typically they're already done. Like, I will just attach them in the email that I send. And here's the three things you agreed to by when.

Speaker 3:

You know, please, you know, let me know if you heard anything different in this conversation. Here's why that question is so important. One we want a response back in the email. When they respond back in the email, it's kind of like that signature where it says, yeah, we had the conversation. They don't have to agree with it, we just need some form of communication showing that they have the conversation and then it gives them the opportunity to really tell us what that is or what that isn't.

Speaker 2:

So Wow, okay, yeah Do you want to do a?

Speaker 3:

do you want to do a role play? Real quick, Would that be? Helpful for your listeners? Sure, all right. So do you want to be the employee? And you'll have to tell me what we're coaching.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's think about this I'll be the employee and I'll be a customer service rep.

Speaker 3:

Okay, and what's the problem?

Speaker 2:

I am not organizing the client's files appropriately, on a consistent basis, and all clients have the same thoughts.

Speaker 3:

Okay, awesome. Hey, marilyn, thank you so much for taking the time to chat today. I really appreciate it. Hey, of course, yeah, so I'm curious how are things going?

Speaker 2:

I mean great.

Speaker 3:

Okay, what's really great about the work right now?

Speaker 2:

I think talking with the clients is nice and the team is good to work with. I'm just excited to get new clients.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, and I 100% agree with you on really learning what our clients need, and it's something that you excel at. And, as we're getting new clients, there's several that are coming in and I do want to talk about that process with you today, about that client paperwork that comes in and how we're organizing it to ensure that each of the attorneys in our firm has the right information and consistent information, especially because there's times where I have to jump in for Sarah or Sarah has to jump in for Jean, you know. So we do just want to ensure that that that client information is always consistent. Can you tell me a little bit about what's working or not working within that right now?

Speaker 2:

I think it's the order in which they come in. That's the way I've been delivering them, and I know that's different for each client.

Speaker 3:

Okay. Okay, so you're delivering them based on the order that they come in, and I know we've kind of had this conversation before around priority based on when the court dates or the discovery dates are that we need to prioritize them versus based on when they come in.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I mean. I mean I'm just thinking it might be easier if we did a checklist, a generic checklist, since everybody has the same needs, have the same requirements, so getting them out of order is a problem, I'm assuming for the team.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know, and I agree with the checklist, and as we're such a small team and growing, we're finding the things that work and that work for you. So would you be willing to come up with a checklist that you could provide back to me, maybe by noon tomorrow? Sure, okay, what are some other things going on with that?

Speaker 2:

I think it's just the timing. I feel like some clients are taking way too long to get us what we need, which makes me feel that I'm not getting them to the correct attorney or team member at the right time. That's why I'm giving them what I have, as opposed to giving them an invalid pair of folder Yep.

Speaker 3:

And let me ask this question what do you think the impact is on giving the attorneys what you have versus all the documents together?

Speaker 2:

Well, I guess I've thought about it. It's probably wasting more of their time. They're having to pick it up two or three times instead of once.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. So it sounds like there's two problems. The first problem that we have is what do we focus on first, which we're going to take care of with a checklist, and then it sounds like the second problem is we're not getting the information back timely from the client. How do you think we could solve that?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a balance. It's like how do we remind them without hounding them? You know, but this is also professionally. You know, they know we need the studs.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely Absolutely. So you know, I I would like you to come up with different ways to remind folks where they still feel honored and and they still feel that they're a part of the process, versus that they did something wrong.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 3:

Let me ask a question. Sure, yeah, and you know we don't typically have the personal conversations at work, but I you know I'm just going to share kind of a piece of story is, when I went through my divorce, I, you know, my attorney, did reach out a couple different times to say, hey, do you have this piece or that piece? And sometimes it was, quite honestly, I was so overwhelmed I just couldn't do anything and those reminders really were almost godsends to me because it told me what I needed, when, and I didn't have to try to remember anything.

Speaker 2:

So you know, and see I just think of it as being negative. I feel like they're going to feel like we're pushing them when it's yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, you are right. Because, we want to meet what the goal is, but it's in the languaging of how we make those reminders so that we can hit their goals and our goals as well.

Speaker 2:

I love this. This is this. Did take the issue and actually broke it down three levels to figure out what's really the problem.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So now we're out of our role play?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I mean it's. I just say as you're, as you're going through, and okay, I see the things you know, the checklist would be great, but yeah it. It's like I think we're all in a position where we have clients that if they're taking too long to get us something, it is uncomfortable to have that third phone call or fourth email going. Hello, yeah, yeah, you know, I guess sometimes they get on board in like two days and then every now and then you'll have well, it takes six weeks and you're like.

Speaker 3:

A hundred percent, a hundred percent, you know. So there's two things that might be helpful for your listeners here, and one of those is we actually put timeframes on some of the contract pieces, meaning, hey, we will, you know. So we're starting to set up our contracts in order to impact that, so that it doesn't come back as, oh, this is an issue on the firm it is. Here's the amount of time that this should take in order to do it, and we do require turnaround of documentation within X period of time, and if we don't have that, we will send reminders for that. But you know we can't perform all of the work until those key items are complete, and so we're setting expectations right up front with our clients, just like we're setting expectations right up front with our employees, and we call that designed accountability and all the leadership programs we run, design the accountability, so that you know we can move things forward in the process.

Speaker 3:

I love that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think I think even online onboarding, I only have the time frame or like the four. You know it would be better to have the time frame. Yeah, interesting. Ok, there's a to. There's a lot to unpack here. This has been a really great conversation. It's just I love the way you bring it up and how to, how to work with your team and you know we all you know are working for a common goal and I think you find out really quickly if someone's not and you try to get rid of them. As they say, hire slow and fire fast. Yeah, so that's one of the things I like, but I appreciate you being here and I know that my listeners might want to reach out to you to talk with you about some of these issues, and maybe you know, I noticed that you have some courses and you know your podcast, of course, so there's a lot of different ways that you can help them. What would be the best way that my listeners can connect with you?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely. We have something called our Tough Talk Audit and so happy, and that's kind of those six steps I walked through. But then we have a blueprint which includes the email template follow up. So if you're interested in learning more, I'd suggest that Tough Talk Audit.

Speaker 2:

That's fantastic, and I've got the elevatedtalentconsultingcom and your other links to reach out to you on LinkedIn or Instagram, so I'll make sure that all of that is in the show notes and, of course, your YouTube channel. So I'm excited to do that. This has been great. I really appreciate you being here and I think we've covered a lot of stuff, and I thank you.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much.

Speaker 4:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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