Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E81 Developing Your Leadership Skills with Doug Thorpe

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 81

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Servant leadership transforms organizations by flipping traditional hierarchy upside down. Doug Thorpe, an executive coach with military and banking leadership experience, reveals how this approach creates sustainable success by putting team members first.

Doug's leadership journey started in elementary school when he aspired to be captain of the crossing guards. This early experience established a pattern that would follow him through military service, a 20-year banking career, and into his role as coach to hundreds of business leaders. What stands out in his story is how consistently he found himself in leadership positions—not from ego, but from a genuine desire to serve.

The concept of leaders eating last, literally practiced in military settings, provides a powerful metaphor for servant leadership in business. By prioritizing team needs and wellbeing, leaders demonstrate value while ensuring resources flow to where they're most needed. This principle extends naturally into organizational leadership, where putting others first creates a foundation for growth.

Doug's coaching process helps clients develop personalized leadership frameworks that define their leadership identity and determine their legacy. Rather than adopting someone else's model, he encourages leaders to identify attributes and principles that authentically represent their values. This framework becomes a roadmap for intentional development, guiding how leaders show up in every moment.

Understanding your "why" proves equally transformative. With insights from the Why Institute, Doug helps leaders identify their core motivations. The combination of why (core purpose), how (method), and what (contribution) creates a unique leadership fingerprint that drives authenticity and impact.

Reach Doug here:

https://dougthorpe.com
https://podcasts.dougthorpe.com
https://www.headwayexec.com/

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, doug Thorpe, to the show today. From the military to the boardroom, doug has served in numerous leadership roles. Doug is a former banker with JPM Chase, national consultant and is the founder of five different businesses. Since 2008, he's been an executive coach and mentor to hundreds of business leaders, guiding and shaping their climb to becoming better servant leaders. I'm excited to have you here, doug Welcome.

Speaker 3:

Thanks, marilyn, it's a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2:

Awesome. Can you tell us about your leadership journey?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'll try to keep it brief. It did start at a very young age for me. I aspired to be captain of the crossing guard in my elementary school. That was a thing back in my day. We put banners and badges on kids and sent them out in traffic with stop signs to help direct the flow around the school. That would be blasphemy in today's social standard, but it was a thing in my day and it was something that I admired in the upper classmen. I'll say, and you know, as I moved through school, I wanted to be that and I did work my way up to be captain of the whole thing and that was just, and it wasn't an ego trip, it was just this compelling sense of serving the greater good at the school and I couldn't have articulated it that way at the age. But that, as I look back, that became a theme for me and I take that to say. I was a servant leader before. That was a thing and it carried with me. I would find myself high school, college. There were opportunities to lead organizations and I would raise my hand and next thing, you know, I'd be in charge of the thing Always. I can honestly say it was never about the ego or the pride of getting it done. It was about the goal of serving and doing what the organization charter was about. That led to a natural somewhat natural transition into commissioning into the US Army.

Speaker 3:

Out of college I did active duty service for four years and some reserve duty for two more, and then decided to leave the military. I did go to work at a regional bank at the time large regional bank Was immediately hired because of my leadership. The team that interviewed me said that they themselves were former military and could quickly connect the dots on the opportunity that was in front of them. And so I joined and had what ended up being a 20-year career there, with progressive roles of leadership and responsibility.

Speaker 3:

Left that to start a consulting business, did consulting for a number of years and what I always discovered my clients were having these moments where they would wag their finger and tell me to come in and shut the door. They wanted to talk about something and the something inevitably was some challenge they were having with a team member or some other leader in the organization. And you know classic leadership struggle happens and I it was many years later. I got tired of traveling with the consulting and said what else can I really do with what I have? And that's when I turned my attention to coaching and, as you alluded, I've been doing that for a very long time now.

Speaker 2:

That's fantastic, yeah, I love that. So, thinking about you know we talk about leadership, but what is servant leaders to you? What does that? What are you helping to shape servant leaders?

Speaker 3:

Well, servant leadership has been called a lot of things and I want to acknowledge there are those that when they hear it they shudder at the concept.

Speaker 3:

But it is a little bit of a notion of not being top down but rather being bottom up, when you think first about the people in your organization that are out on the front line, thinking and being concerned with their benefit and their well-being first, before you do. And you could argue some of that principle of that was actually instilled in me in the military, because it is a true fact, military leaders eat last. So when they open up the chow line you want to feed the troops first and you do that for a couple of reasons you want to show them their worth and value. But literally you might be in a situation rations are scarce and you want them to eat first and you, as the leader, are left with whatever's left over. And again, that may sound archaic to some but it was just a way of life and a very core belief and principle. And you know, using that analogy carries many different corollaries into the workforce.

Speaker 2:

I see, okay, excellent, yeah, I love the transition. It seems the military is always a good starting point for leadership and helping develop what was already there, and it's that's amazing. And so when is a good time for someone to reach out for your, for your help? Is there a position or a certain time in their business career? How does that? Who's best to work with?

Speaker 3:

you? Yeah, great question. I don't know that I've ever been asked it quite that way. You know my quick answer.

Speaker 3:

As you were describing, it is no time like the present. It doesn't really matter where you are in your journey. If, if you are thinking that you just might be a leader or you have some leadership aspirations, definitely you need to start as early as possible really establishing and creating a framework of the leader you think you want to be. And that does lead me to a point. One of the principal things I do with virtually all of my clients I challenge them on putting together a leadership framework to really try to define exactly what they think their understanding of leadership may be and think in terms of attributes or skills. Or ultimately, when it's all over and said and done, what will the people who worked for and with you, what will they say your leadership was? And you kind of proactively and intentionally lead that discussion by yourself grabbing and claiming a framework.

Speaker 3:

And I came to this idea as I was developing my coaching practice, because in the early, early days when I said, okay, I think I want to be a coach, what does that mean? What do I need to do? And I knew leadership was my theme. You know, I went out, I looked up all the big books on the leadership theory and leadership practice and principle and most, every one of them, had some notion of a framework you know well. Take Stephen R Covey Seven Habits of the Highly Effective People. Well, those are leadership principles and of course Covey subsequently did a leadership-specific version of that book.

Speaker 3:

But John Maxwell, marshall, goldsmith, you know, you name all the popular gurus in that space. They all have this kind of attribute list, and the more of that I read number one. A lot of the themes were similar, using different vocabulary to describe them, but similar ideas. And then it dawned on me you know what, though Leadership is very personal, I think the challenge should be individuals need to decide for themselves what that attribute list ought to be, because you can't be everything to everybody. So you need to, as a leader, you need to think about the attributes and skills, abilities, impact that you're going to have, and then you need to own that framework and that should be your goal to challenge yourself, to be able to show up in each and every moment representing those values and those principles.

Speaker 2:

And do you feel like starting with like finding out your why Is that? You know that's something that we talk a lot about. It's funny, not just like why are you doing this, why do you want this, but really keep going five whys down to determine what's the why Are you there?

Speaker 3:

I think it's a very powerful message. In fact, one of my coaching certifications I'm certified by the why Institute, I'm certified by the Y Institute, and the Y Institute is loosely related to Simon Sinek's famous TED Talk on Start With why and the quick backstory on that. There was a gentleman, dr Gary Sanchez, that heard that TED Talk. He was a dentist by trade and had developed a very successful practice, but was kind of doing one of those little later stage life evaluation things. You know, what do I really want to do next and what should I be about? He heard the why story and said that's amazing, that's what I need to figure out. You know, why do I do what I do? And maybe that will reveal what I should be doing next, what I do, and maybe that will reveal what I should be doing next. He, as the story goes, he actually stalked Simon for almost a year before Simon agreed to take a phone call. When he did take the call, gary's question was love your story, love your work? Do you have an assessment tool that helps us determine our personal why? And at that point in time, the answer was no, I don't. And you know, godspeed, if you can figure one out, go for it.

Speaker 3:

So Dr Gary did. He interviewed over a thousand individuals, privately and personally, to compile this database. What he discovered in that journey was there were, ultimately, in all of human existence there's really only nine whys, okay, and we each have our own variation of those. But then what he continued to study was also a la Simon's model the why, how and what equation. The why, how and what equation. And what he discovered was you can take those nine whys and through the iterative combinations of those nine you can determine your why, how and what and when you blend that together. I forget what the math permutation is of nine elements factored three ways, but it's a pretty broad spectrum. And when you start looking at that and thinking about that you realize, similar to what personality tests give us, there is a wide variety of personality in the world and the way people show up.

Speaker 3:

And, to give you an example, my why, how and what is my why? I want to find a better way. So I, when something is posed to me or presented to me, I'm curious and I'm the. Every one of the whys has a plus and a minus, like any leadership strength may be. But the better way is a challenge, because my initial reaction like, let's say, marilyn, you bring me an idea and I kick into my why let's think about a better way?

Speaker 3:

That's going to sound critical of your idea if I'm not careful, but it's not that I want to be critical, it's just I've got this weird drive to maybe just ask the question, just curious, is there a better way? And I could say I like your idea. Would you mind having a moment? Let's explore this, let's put it on the table, let's see if there's something else we could think about with this. We could think about with this. And so, rather than dismissing it, I'm getting to my drive for better way and trying not to alienate you for your idea. But as a leader, see, that would be critical. I could be very dismissive of people around me if I'm not careful.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I can see sensitive people would be like wait, I can't bring an idea to you at all because he just wants to pick it apart. Yeah, I can see sensitive people would be like wait, I can't bring the idea to you at all, because he just wants to pick it apart.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah. And then my how is? I have a thing for mastery. If you give me something, I'm going to take it and I'm going to milk it for all it's worth. I'm going to really try to conquer that thing and really understand all dimensions of it. And again, on the plus side, that's good, for instance, for me when somebody introduces me to maybe a new idea and principle of leadership.

Speaker 3:

I'm very curious about that. It's like I don't automatically dismiss anything. I say, okay, let's explore that, let's understand that. And even if I've decided what you're telling me does sound like the best way, my why, I'm still going to work on mastering it to really really flesh it out, really propagate it, if you will, to the nth degree. But then my what? What I do in the world is contribute, and that gets us back to servant leadership. I want to contribute to the well-being of everybody around us, so I share that with you. Just to give you the idea of the why, how and what, how it can come together. I'm not trying to sound like a special individual, I'm just saying that that's what the study tells me, that how I'm wired and it's excellent to be able to clarify what those, how those tie in together.

Speaker 3:

Yeah Well, it's a powerful tool and I do use it in my leadership training for a lot of my clients. Get them to take the assessment and it can really inform, and I can tell you every client that has ever done it. They immediately come away with okay, this is spooky, how did they know this about me? They, they go. I've never heard me described to me that way, but that's it, that. That's that's exactly what I, what I do.

Speaker 2:

Very cool, let's let's talk about now. I love the wise and when you talk about leadership development, I know that you have you have a course and you have different levels of working with you as far as helping, like on-demand or ongoing basis to help as I'm building a business, or transitioning.

Speaker 3:

I do One element of my practice. I do the one-on-one coaching. I do some team leadership development programs as well, but I do also have a bench of other colleagues that I've met and worked with over the years that are available to do what I call advice on demand. So I've got people in my group that are available. I myself, of course, am focused predominantly on the leadership development aspect of it, but I've got an offering where clients can engage us monthly at different levels of involvement. So, for instance, the very base case level. There's a fixed price. You get to basically three hours of coaching for the month, but the coaching or advising can be in many different areas. I've got a gentleman that's a financial specialist. I've got another gentleman that is actually a fractional CFO. That is available.

Speaker 3:

I don't have any lawyers for obvious reasons, but I do have attorneys in my referral network I'm happy to share. And I've got others. I've got a personnel expert, someone who specializes in employee engagement and development. I've got sales marketing, all the classic disciplines that businesses run into. I've got resources that are available on this bench and we do it a month at a time. There is no long-term contract obligation. You dip in, you find the advisor you want and you can get all your questions answered in a month, Then wonderful, we're happy to serve. If you want to extend that, there are some discounts for committing to longer time periods. So we try to make it very practical and reasonable for business owners in particular because, as you alluded, I've run or created five different businesses. I know the challenges small business owners have from a cash and liquidity standpoint from time to time. So we want to be respective of that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I'm exactly that the cash flow, the different seasonality, and the other thought is when you're starting, depending on where you are, you're starting, you're growing, you're stable, you're scaling. There's a difference, different needs and issues all through that, whether it's cashflow, advice or help, but growing your team and then your marketing and all the different things. So, with your leadership and where you've been and your military training and all the training, you help each step of the way. So if I'm, you know, getting, I'm ready to scale, so I've got all my systems in place you can help to make sure that we are in the right direction for that. Those types of things.

Speaker 3:

That's right, Absolutely, and that's also to your point. That's where I leveraged my 20 years in banking because as a banker I dealt with a lot of client companies. My bank was predominantly a commercial bank, meaning we dealt more with the businesses than we did with the individuals. We did have the banking term for it is retail banking, that's when you're individual consumer customers. But we did have that, but our focus was on the commercial side predominantly.

Speaker 3:

So all the clients I ever dealt with were company owners and founders of different size businesses and I watched their journey go through the you know, various cycles and seasons of their business.

Speaker 3:

And that's part of what fueled my passion for the coaching and advisory work I do, because I saw founders that suffered from founderitis, that as the business was growing and expanding they could not grow with it and they were not willing to make some of the decisions that needed to be made to perpetuate the growth of the business. But they kind of could not get out of their own way, to put it mildly. And in my early years in banking it frustrated me because I would see these companies come in kind of small and startup idea and do well and create a market and create success. In fact, I kind of almost thought about writing a book that I wanted to call the Paradox of Success, to talk about small business ownership and the owner that couldn't get out of their own way that the very thing they wanted was growth and prosperity in their business, but when they got it, it was demanding change and modification to the process and the leadership. They weren't willing to make that change and the business ended up imploding because of it.

Speaker 2:

I have witnessed that where they reached a certain you know, seven to 10 million and wanted to surpass that, but the CEO couldn't let go of every single decision, had to go through her Right, right, and you know that's the classic symptom and if you plotted it, it would start to look like the classic hourglass design and that little pinch in the hourglass would be the owner, founder, ceo, that that was insisting.

Speaker 3:

Everything came through them. And as the top side of the hourglass gets bigger, you get more demand, more orders, more expansion of opportunity, it all gets bottlenecked and you don't get more hours in the day.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you don't get more hours in the day.

Speaker 3:

You don't get more hours in the day, so it all gets bottlenecked and starts to back up and it can't flow freely to be fulfilled and completed and that ultimately causes those customers to go away and say well, I can't deal with you, don't give me my orders on time.

Speaker 2:

True. So during your time at the bank you saw a lot of these different changes. Were you able to I'm sure it wouldn't be called coaching, but were you able to help those clients kind of see how to move past some things, or that just wasn't something you were able to do in your position?

Speaker 3:

Sadly, no, I hadn't even formulated the right answer to help with that. I was observing it and being frustrated by it, partly because it affected my success at the bank.

Speaker 3:

Of course I had a good account that crashed. That was not a good thing, but sometimes it was inevitable and we all acknowledge that was part of the game. But no, I didn't have a good solution at the time. I wish in retrospect I could have and I could have been involved advising respect, I could have and I could have been involved advising.

Speaker 3:

The interesting thing was, at my bank, our culture. We were encouraged to be the trusted advisor to our clients. I mean our whole, even our marketing that we did, the TV commercials we ran was us as bankers out in the field. I mean we. You know you would see pictures of a banker with a hard hat or or or steel-toed boots. You know out in a, out on a shop floor, you know on an oil rig or you know on a boat, and you know, wherever our customers were, that's where we were. That was the story that our, our brand recognition used to explain who and what we were, you know. And so we weren't just the guys sitting behind the big mahogany desk, we were there with our customers where they sat. So we were, you know, sleeves rolled up, out in the shop floor talking to them about their business, but I'm not sure anybody on our team was actually doing it in a coaching way. I think it was much more the financial advisory way.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it was keep it in your lane kind of thing at the time. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting that coaching has come out to be so much more in the last years and you know to be able to help more people and see, you know it's I have a coach decision. You can't see the full picture if you're in the frame. Right so you know, having that extra set of eyes, a different perspective, can can certainly change future decisions and not, if not, current ones.

Speaker 3:

Totally agreed.

Speaker 2:

Well, this has been very good. I would love to find out. How can people get in touch with you? Or well, actually, a better point is how do I know I'm ready to take on a leadership coach?

Speaker 3:

Well, my quick answer for that is you can go to my website at dougthorpecom and just ask for a free discovery call. I'm more than happy to talk with you. You know, no hard sales pitch, no obligation. Just let's schedule some time. I'm willing to hear your individual story on where you think you are in your journey, whether it's owning a business or being considered for promotion into another role or any of those sorts of combinations of things. Just schedule the call, let me know, and I'll be happy to sit with you and talk through it and let's see if there's a fit. If I can help, I'd be happy to, or if someone from my bench can help, we'd love to do that as well.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Yeah, that would cover a lot and make it so much easier to decide. You know, am I ready to hire a coach and you know what is my next step. So, doug, thank you so much. This has been a great, a great interview. I love having you on the show. I'll make sure that your website is in the in the show notes so people can reach you. And again, thank you for your service, obviously, and thank you for your, your information, your time today.

Speaker 4:

I really appreciate it. Marilyn, Thank you for this opportunity to be on board. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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