Leadership In Law Podcast

S02E86 Leadership, Hospitality, & Culture for Success with Elise Buie

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 2 • Episode 86

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What if the secret to building a thriving law practice isn't found in marketing tactics or billable hour targets, but in the mirror? That's exactly what Seattle family law attorney Elise Buie discovered on her journey from solo practitioner to firm founder.

Elise opens up about the profound leadership lessons she's learned over eight years of intentional development. The breakthrough moment in her growth came when she realized that every challenge in her firm, from staff performance to profitability gaps, ultimately traced back to her leadership. This shift from outward blame to inward responsibility revolutionized her approach to running the Elise Buie Family Law Group.

The conversation reveals fascinating insights into how Elise implemented a modified Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) to create data-driven accountability throughout her firm. Her innovative "build on invoice" metric uncovered an $800,000 discrepancy between recorded time and billable hours, a discovery that fundamentally changed their operations and profitability.

Perhaps most compelling is Elise's commitment to creating a leadership pipeline throughout her organization. She doesn't just develop her immediate team; she instills leadership skills at every level so that attorneys can help clients become better leaders of their families through difficult transitions. This philosophy reflects her belief that children, the true victims of divorce, benefit when parents can effectively navigate challenging periods.

The discussion takes a fascinating turn when Elise shares how she's incorporated "unreasonable hospitality" into her firm's DNA, creating a competitive advantage that artificial intelligence cannot replicate. Drawing from her New Orleans roots, this approach has become both a cultural cornerstone and personal joy in her practice.

Reach Elise here:
https://www.facebook.com/elisebuiefamilylaw/
https://www.instagram.com/elisebuiefamilylawgroup/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/elise-buie-family-law-group/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCF8VhDqm60jk3S2XbN6_Sg
https://www.tiktok.com/@elisebuieesq
https://elisebuiefamilylaw.com/

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you, from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a seasoned leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. I'm your host, marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, elise Bowie, to the show today. Elise is a Seattle-based family and divorce lawyer and founder of the Elise Bowie Family Law Group. A champion for maintaining civility through the divorce process, elise advocates for our clients in the best interest of their children, helping them move forward with dignity from a position of strength. I'm excited to have you here, elise, welcome. Thanks, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it Absolutely. I'm excited to hear you tell us about your readership journey.

Speaker 3:

Oh. Probably don't have enough time, all the gory details.

Speaker 2:

Let's do some highlights, and then I've got some other questions to ask you.

Speaker 3:

Okay, so highlights. I mean I would say that from a leadership standpoint and I have had leadership as kind of my main focus for probably about eight years, like very intentionally. Probably about eight years, like very intentionally, because I learned very early on that you know, though I might have thought I had leadership abilities and you know some natural tendencies towards leadership boy did I have a lot to learn about. You know leading an entire team of super diverse professionals and all the different things as compared to you.

Speaker 3:

Think of some of the leadership things that I think many of us end up doing, whether it's just being the leader of your family, maybe, or leading various organizations where people have come together around a common issue or mission. Like you know, maybe you're the leader of your kid's swimming team or the soccer team or something. You know, where there's things you do, whereas in a business it has been such an interesting thing because not only are you leading people and often from very diverse backgrounds, and they might actually have very diverse, you know interests and opinions and their own mission but also then I mean, it's a for-profit operation. So you have to look at leadership ROI, you know which is you're leading maybe a volunteer organization and you're all raising money for the neighborhood playground, you can have a bunch of dead weight and okay, you know that they were volunteering already. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3:

Like it's not that we lost yeah, and so it has been kind of a wild journey, and I think much of my journey has been spent with a mirror on me, like okay at Elise, what are you doing wrong here? You know? Like, what do you need to learn? And it has been a lot of introspection, coaching, working on myself and getting my own ego out of all things.

Speaker 3:

You know, just really focusing on what's right for the firm, what's right for the firm, what's right for the team. How do I bring my best self every day, even when maybe I don't feel like my best self? You know Exactly, yeah, so I think it's been kind of a wild journey. I mean, it's been the most raw kind of open-for-self-up journey that I've ever had. And I thought raising a huge group of kids did pretty good and I would say, you know, even a deeper journey, which in itself, Very interesting, and you feel like your biggest leadership role has only been over the last eight years.

Speaker 2:

So then let's look back at the beginning of your career. Did it work for you, a solo, and then you grew into a larger firm when you got to Seattle?

Speaker 3:

Well, what happened is so I mean I, you know, got out of law school, I clerked, then I went in a bigger firm I was from New Orleans and so lived in New Orleans, worked for a pretty big firm and then quit my job to stay home to take care of my kids. I actually homeschooled my children and, you know, took care of my kids for a long time and in there Hurricane Katrina hit. So, you know off, we had gone on a little journey of moving all across the country multiple times. So then I ended up in Seattle and you know it was time for me to get back to work and really, you know, dig in. I now had kids that were getting Seattle and you know it was time for me to get back to work and really, you know, dig in. I now had kids that were getting older and, you know, college was looming a few years off from my oldest, and so I went back to work here in Seattle. I started in a very small firm here in Seattle and then I went out. As soon as I got licensed here I had to take a bar exam. I had to take three bar exams in my little journeys across the country. So once I started my firm here, which was in 2015,. So 10 years ago.

Speaker 3:

You know, I think I initially just thought, oh, it can't be that complicated to run an office. You know this lady I just worked with, she didn't do an office. It can't be that complicated to run this. You know this lady I just worked with, she didn't go in office. It can't be that complicated. And you know, obviously there's a lot to learn and running this. And so I think I came to the conclusion fairly quickly in my journey, based on a lot of the people I've worked with, in my consult with Noel, because a lot of people I've worked with and my consult with Noel because a lot of people, I think, don't understand how all problems tie back to the leader. I mean, like every single one of them, you can get out that what's the old saying that bucks out here?

Speaker 3:

I mean, and boy is it true. And you know, until you can kind of wrap your head around that and stop like coining your finger out the window at other people and being like, oh well, this person doesn't do this, and it's like, yeah, this has to do with what systems do you have in place? What's your accountability structure? How do you measure ROI? Do you talk about it? Is it transparent? Are you looking at it consistently? You know, are you having those tough conversations with people when they're not hitting their ROI? And what is the follow-up to said tough conversation? You know, and so I think, once you accept that all, every single problem in your firm is related to your leadership, then you know, you then start realizing, like, like you can have every tactic in the book, you can bring on the best talent, you can do all the things, but if you're not at the top of your game as a leader, your firm is going to.

Speaker 2:

I love that. Yeah, so you can have all the systems in place, but you've got to have the, the person at the head that takes care of everything, and you've got KPIs and that sort of thing and the check-ins. Are you using a specific type of system for your organization, like the ERS, or any specific type of system for your?

Speaker 3:

firm. We do, we do EOS and we've been doing that since about 2021. And I wouldn't say we are, like EOS, purists in any way in the sense of that we do it perfectly. But I mean people like I don't give my billing engine rocks to do, you know, a large enough firm with enough administrative support that we could really allow the billing engine to focus solely on that, not on other things. And so you know that's not EOS pure, but we do very much appreciate the EOS system and I really, you know, not only did I read Traction, but I have to tell you Traction was pretty dry and I didn't, like, you know, really an easy read, and I became an EOS advocate through Fireproof.

Speaker 3:

Mike Morrison, tom Knocking, was with Fireproof and I went back to one city, literally called Mike the next day and was like, okay, I understand this, like I got it, so started working with Fireproof. I was one of the very first clients to their you know, voting side of the house, to their you know voting side of the house, and really understood the data, how we needed to get the data and using data, using NUMCERS and, you know, really being able to all have them in the same direction. And that has been, you know, a huge thing and obviously we've all you know. But then Eos definitely serves as a major fundamental thing that we use to move excellent, yeah, and it's, there's a.

Speaker 2:

We have an eos representative, one of the masterminds I'm in and I'm finding very and you're right, the book, the chat book, is it's it is. It's a desert journey, it is, but through the mastermind of webinars that Lynn presents us, it makes so much more sense. But yes, oh yeah, I agree, let someone else explain it and walk you through it. That's the way to go.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely Delegate your learning.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely, Absolutely. Delegation is the thing. So when you look at your structure and I know that leadership and ROI is huge for you and building that strong, firm culture it was EOS instrumental to that. Did that help you with your management style or how was that?

Speaker 3:

Oh, I would say absolutely, I mean one just having that dashboard of data, so knowing what all the numbers were. And we, we had an interesting evolution because you know we work, like I said, with Fireproof, which is mostly focused on personal injury firms, and, like I said, we were one of their first firms, so we were hourly, so they struggled with getting dashboards that could work for us from an hourly billable structure. And I always had this just inkling like I would run forecasts and all this stuff and what the numbers were supposed to be and what they were. There was always this delta and I would struggle with trying to figure out what it was. If I would look at individual billing and I'm like, well, they did their billing. What it was, if I would look at individual billing and I'm like, well, they did their billing. But come to understand, we did a major deep dive and realized that there is this delta in almost every billing firm I've worked with Everybody has it when they'll say, oh, you're supposed to bill, you know, 1,300 hours a year, and so the attorney will put in 1,300 hours a year but they will do things like discount their time here and there or they will write off time. So when it all was said and done, you know, maybe 1,000 hours, maybe 1,100 was actually getting put in invoice and thus collected.

Speaker 3:

So I created this thing. I call it build on invoice. I mean it's as straightforward as can be, but it literally was and I mean I explained to my team I'm like a build hour is an hour after your normal hourly rate. That is actually going on an invoice. And I look at the collection side of things as my issue. You know it's an admin firm management issue. So I don't hold anyone in my team to a collection standard, but I do hold them to a build on invoice standard, and so that has.

Speaker 3:

I mean we had about an $800,000 bucket from what's actually, you know, filled, but then versus what actually got filled on invoice, and so now that we have really understand that, we turned it around and, you know, still track it. I mean because it's part of our life, work, integration, that if I see my billing engine doing work that is not able to be put on an invoice, I'm asking myself, like what is wrong here? Like why am I delegating this? Like who could be supporting them in this? You know, know, and why is this on their plate? Because that doesn't make any sense. So we have a very strong analytical look at the firm so that we can be making sure that the right work is in with the right people and that we are not burning people out. You know that people are doing the work that is in their lane, and in their lane only, and that they the KPIs that they have are 100% within their control. You know there's no like mystery around that, and I think that has helped us immensely.

Speaker 2:

Excellent, yeah, I think, making sure you have the right butts and the right seeds and that people enjoy doing those types of things. And that helps too when we talk about building your strong company culture and the firm culture that you have that allows you to travel without getting into a lot of stress and your firm continues to grow on your way, oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

I think for me, that has been having strong leaders on the leadership team who have a mindset of our entire firm is about developing leaders. So, like I want to develop my leadership team to be amazing leaders, I want the readership team to develop the people that are working with them to be good leaders. I want you know the heads of every legal pod to be developing the people in the regal pod to be good leaders so that they're leading our clients. I want to develop our clients into good leaders so that they are leading their families successfully and they can come through a divorce successfully. You know, holding up their mirrors and understanding like what can they do to improve their family situation?

Speaker 2:

I love that, so it trickles all the way down.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's our goal is that we are, you know, maximizing everyone we come in contact. I mean, I have this kind of weird thought that children are truly the victims, and the only victims really, of divorce. You know, I want children to be put in the best situation possible, and so, in my mind, if their parents are, you know, trying to do the right thing and really thinking about how can they lead their children through this experience in a way that is going to be more transformational than traumatic, like that is going to be very, very important to the children's psychological well-being long-term.

Speaker 2:

And, other than being an attorney, you're a mediator to help with that. So you and your team have the strengths and the talents to help any type of divorce to make it a smooth transition. Is that right we do?

Speaker 3:

not do mediation. I mean, I am trained as a mediator myself but I do not do mediation personally and we don't currently have a mediator on our team. We'll refer people to mediators. We'll refer people to, you know, mediators and in our state mediation at least in Maine County mediation is mandatory in all but a very few circumstances. So you know, we have an exceedingly robust mediation community just because it is such an important part of the process here.

Speaker 3:

But I think that one of the things that sets us apart and kind of I think of it as like our unique value proposition is we hire people for their emotional intelligence.

Speaker 3:

Like one of the things we really focus on in our hiring is bringing on people who are, you know, positive, who have a growth mindset, who are really lifelong learners and solid enough in their own selves they can accept and give feedback super successfully. I mean, we are such a firm that believes in direct, compassionate feedback regularly so we can learn and iterate and improve, you know, and not be stuck in some old way where you know we're doing something. And I think for me that has been such an important part of things hiring people who are willing, able and just successfully push back on me and can tell me that like at least, no, we're not doing, you know, whatever, and they know that that's a safe place. You know that they can push back on me and we can engage in dialogue and disagreement about things and that is going to be fine. You know, we really encourage differences and you know bringing in differences of opinions, skills, information, because that is what I think makes us all better.

Speaker 2:

And communication? Absolutely so. Do you use a specific assessment tool to help you find the right person or that type of person, or is it something that you built into your interview structure?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean this has ever evolved every. But we use the food process generally for hiring and so that is kind of a very specific process. You know structured interviews, who's in the interviews and what questions are being asked, and you know a scorecard, thencard. Then we also do assessments. I mean we have done a variety of assessments. Depending on the position, we always do a CliftonStrengths.

Speaker 3:

So no matter what position we have CliftonStrengths Finder, I'm a huge fan and I love certain strengths, like in our top 10, you know, because obviously over those years I've been able to analyze the patterns of both our good hires and our bad hires, and so we have analyzed, you know, some hires that you know really were not a cultural fit, weren't aligned, and been able to look at what were their strengths.

Speaker 3:

You know what did their Clifton StrengthsFinders look like? And we've been able to look at what were their strengths. You know what did their clipped and string finders look like, and we've been able to see patterns, which has been very helpful. You know, interesting, it's not definitive, you know anything like I wouldn't put it up with court of law and some evidence speaks any great, but do you know what I mean like? And again, we could see patterns and we can understand a little bit more about people. But I mean, cultural alignment is at its shoulders to us and you know, like we might get a candidate that just absolutely gets all the skills Culturally aligned, and I mean that person is going to get, you know, knocked out of the pipeline immediately.

Speaker 2:

I love that, so that you can see that and then you know, because we work, like you said, in a team that can help nurture all your customers, your clients and their families and make everything a success. I love that. So when you, when you're the other thing that I know that you really pride your firm in is is unreasonable hospitality. Yeah we do.

Speaker 3:

We do. I love unreasonable hospitality so much. I'm from New Orleans originally, you know, so grew up in New Orleans and I did not realize just how weird that makes you until Katrina and until we started moving. And so initially we went to Georgia for a year, then Minnesota, then out here to Seattle. So in Minnesota it became very obvious to me, because everyone talks about Minnesota nice, but they don't really mean it. They mean it's like Minnesota nice, but kind of cold, but it's this dynamic. So when I was in Minnesota you know you do simple, like day-to-day things you know you're hopping on an elevator and I worked in the courts and so I'd ride up you know 30 floors in Hennepin County Courthouse and nobody talks to each other and I was like this is so unusual, because in New Orleans you cannot get in an elevator. I mean you could be going one floor and you could be in the criminal court elevator and you're still chit-chatting away.

Speaker 2:

You know in the At least saying hello. I grew up in the South as well. There is a real thing of Southern hospitality.

Speaker 3:

Oh we, I mean in New Orleans we do not just say hello, we are sharing recipes, we are chatting about you know what our grandma did that night. Like it is literally this whole just culture of very, just easy communication. So when I was in Minnesota and nobody was chatting, I mean, one day I just started chatting because I was like I'm like, do we literally all just stare at this number? Like this is what we're going to do? So you know, it became this thing where, you know, I really brought out a lot of communication in the courthouse elevators and people were like, gosh, this is so different. You know, now get in, we chat. And then when I moved to Minnesota it was, I mean, to Seattle, it was the exact same thing. I was back to silent elevators and I'm like, guys, you have got to work with me here. I mean I cannot spare at the number, like it literally feels so dumb. We all know what the numbers, what they look like, what's gonna happen.

Speaker 3:

It's just not very interesting so we know the end story, we know where we're going and so I think that I have just felt, literally since I moved away from New Orleans, just a little off, like I have just been, like I am not with my people in this way. And so last year we went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras, my husband and I and two of our young adult children, and we went there and I mean within 48 hours, I was like, oh, I'm like this is the problem, like this is it? I was like notice all the people chatting with you in the grocery store line, like in the elevator, and and obviously my husband and I had traveled to New Orleans a bunch over the years, like he has to go there for work. We've had, you know, family and friends there. But it was so deeply apparent and I was like, aha, and I'm like this is the thing, it is this hospitality that is the missing link to all things. And when I read Will's book Unreasonable Hospitality I was just like, oh my gosh, this man has written a book just for me and I'm like he didn't name it the Elise Bowie Like. But that is how I feel and I think, so, realizing that it is just who I am, I have been able to bring that to our firm in a way where it just allows me to be my regular self in this way.

Speaker 3:

And it has been so fun to watch people in my firm really embrace unreasonable hospitality. And I mean we have a person in our firm whose whole job is the unreasonable hospitality coordinator. You know, like she and I mean we run unreasonable hospitality summits. We think about how we can do it better, about how we can do it better. We have everybody in our office has KPIs around unreasonable hospitality because we're trying to encourage, you know, that type of behavior and just like day-to-day, just aura, like how can you think about, how do you look at every problem in your firm through a lens of unreasonable hospitality? And it has. It just brings me joy. And so you know, if I'm going to do this, this entrepreneurial gig, like I should be joyful, and so unreasonable hospitality brings me a ton of joy. And I think that I mean really and though you know I didn't start it with this in mind it is the thing that is never going to be replaced by AI. That's true.

Speaker 2:

You know, one quick question on the hospitality side and I got this idea from another person I interviewed Do you have your people score each other like secret score? No, so it was the kind of story is like, okay, once a week or whatever, you can have someone vote so say I saw you do something that I thought was really. That example was within the corporate goal or the corporate mission. You know, elise did this. That was so totally on mission. I want to give her a kudos, right. So same kind of thing. And so at the meetings, at the team meetings, would be like and we's got 10 kudos this week, you know just this and helps everybody a little bit, builds that whole team team spirit up within the same type thing. I learned that that was such a good idea well and we do something similar.

Speaker 3:

We have what's called a celebration channel in our Slack community and people utilize that.

Speaker 3:

So every day somebody is calling out somebody for doing something great you know with, and it generally is related to either team unreasonable hospitality or client unreasonable hospitality. You know, and I do think that is so important to encourage that type of camaraderie and where we're looking for each other to do good Kind of like, you know, as a parent, sometimes parents spend all their time looking for their child to mess up, when really the parenting win is looking for your child to do great and actually notice it and call it out and, you know, reinforce that, because that is what will drive a child to just be their very best self. You know, is is that, and I think that we see that just in humans in general. I mean, I have a friend out here in Washington who wrote a book Don't Do Stuff you Suck At and I'm like, absolutely, you know, sometimes people spend all their energy on that 20% that they don't do well and it's like, yeah, no, lose that 50%, Forget about it, Delegate it. You know, do the other stuff you do great at.

Speaker 2:

I agree, I agree and you know, I believe study after study has shown that job satisfaction. You know those kudos aren't going to keep people to stay with you a lot more than money in many instances.

Speaker 3:

So that's interesting, I love that Trying to find what motivates each individual team member I think has been one of our. I mean, I don't mean to say a problem, but I mean it's one of the things that we're constantly digging and figuring out, because you know, we'll put up some type of bonus structure or KPIs in there sometimes, where everybody is hitting it and I'm like yay, and then you'll change something and like half the people are hitting it and you're like well, is it? This was a bad quarter for them, is it? Was it not motivational? So then you know, we're having lots of conversations with people trying to understand all those things, because I'm a I'm a firm believer in nuance, which I know goes against the idea of scaling, because you know, in scaling kind of everything needs to be the same in in my scaling means I've got to meet each of my team members where they are right. So you know, nuance to me wins the day, not just perform things across the the way, because not everybody is motivated.

Speaker 2:

True, and do you find the big changes happen whenever there's a transition, or is it just you've just changed the type of bonus structure and then it's just something that doesn't resonate with some of the people?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think for us it's mostly, you know, the KPIs, where maybe somebody will be like, well, tracking that KPI was hard. So, you know, I didn't want to do it, like it was just too much, and I'm thinking you've given up 10% bonus to track something. I'm like, girl, let me give you somebody to delegate that to, you know, because I want you to get your 10% bonus and so. But again, having those conversations and understanding what are people's barriers like, because I mean, I do think that is one of the main roles of a leader is removing barriers for your people, you know, and helping them get to where they need to go. And if there's barriers in the way you know, we want to be the first to know and then we want to be able to get rid of those.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. So I want to touch a little bit on how you use AI in your firm.

Speaker 3:

Oh sure, I mean I would say that you know we are definitely not, you know, the most cutting edge AI people, but I mean we are definitely using it, have been using it for years and are still, you know, using more and more years and are still, you know, using more and more. I mean we have brought it in just firm wide we a few years ago, you know, when things were less secure, I think, than they are now, we got our own kind of, you know, personal AI. So we were working, you know, with the developers so that, you know, none of our things were being used in the larger models, you know, to train all things, and we still have that. But we find that there's been some limitations and so now we're looking at different things where we are incorporating AI into certain other workflows. We use, like, you know, a lot of our tech, like HubSpot, clio, you know, zapier, there's a lot of, you know, integrated AI where we can use.

Speaker 3:

Even Slack, you know, has its own AI. But I mean, I personally am a huge fan of AI from a strategic partner, if I understand, you know, really using AI to help me think through thorny things and push back on me. You know, and really I've tried to get better and better at you know how to utilize prompts in ways that you know. I'm not training the AI up to just agree with me. If anything, I train the AI up to disagree.

Speaker 2:

We actually made a Slack channel for our team of AI prompts that you're getting good results from, we share and the prompt has to stay in the thread if you change it or you work with it, so you never lose that Absolutely. The other thing one step further is I set up two advisory boards of conversations. One is like a board of directors and one is on sales. I love that. Yeah, so you can choose, like your top 10 people that you want to be under your board of directors from any talent right, and then you ask them. Part of the prompt is I'm not the golden child. Not everything I say is true. You've got to. You know everyone needs to come back with a reason why tell a story, anecdote, whatever, with your opinion. So it really causes some really interesting conversations.

Speaker 3:

Oh, absolutely. I love that so much. That's such a great idea.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was not my original idea but I do got to enjoy the results of it. But this has been an excellent, wonderful conversation. I do enjoy hearing the story and I'm sure our audience may want to connect with you and chat with you about your journey and your leadership, what you're doing, how is it best to reach out to you or connect with you?

Speaker 3:

Probably just through my email. Elise B at Elise Bowie Family. Well, maybe we can just put that in the show notes or something. My email address That'd be awesome.

Speaker 2:

We'll make sure that's in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here. This has been a really lovely conversation. I appreciate you.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely Well. I appreciate you inviting me and thank you for having me.

Speaker 4:

And I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode, and if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to lawmarketingzonecom to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law podcast and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law podcast. Remember you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at lawmarketingzonecom. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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