Leadership In Law Podcast

S03E102 How Human Chat Service Can Increase Lead Flow by 50% with Ted DeBettencourt

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 3 • Episode 102

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We sat down with Ted DeBettencourt, a JD-MBA turned legal marketing operator, to unpack how human-led chat, built on empathy and speed, can lift qualified leads by 50 percent or more. Ted shares the origin story of firing generic chat vendors, answering chats himself, and scaling to nearly 100 agents serving 1,100 firms, while measuring everything from response time to tone.

We walk through what actually drives intake performance: 12-second response windows, custom scripts per practice area and market, and clear handoffs into your CRM, calendar, or e-sign flow. Ted explains why a short, authentic attorney video, phone or Zoom is fine, boosts conversion by aligning with your billboards, TV spots, and homepage visuals. Then we go deeper into channels beyond the bubble: SMS on mobile, Google Local Services Ads messages, and Google Business Profile chat, all managed by humans trained to be fast, accurate, and kind.

The Google piece matters. LSA messages can route the same inquiry to multiple firms, which means the fastest reply often wins while everyone else pays. We talk about monitoring gaps when notifications fail, how to decline mismatched leads to protect spend, and why too many refunds can hurt rankings. The takeaway is practical: speed-to-lead, empathy, and customization create a durable intake moat, but your team must still pick up the phone the moment a warm transfer comes through.

If you want more signed retainers from the traffic you already have, this conversation gives you a clear playbook: measure response times, personalize scripts, use authentic video, cover every message channel, and enforce fast internal handoffs. 

Reach Ted here: 
https://juvoleads.com/

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SPEAKER_00:

So whether you're a teaspoon leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Ted Betancourt, to the show today. Ted is a third-generation Martha's Vineyard native who has been in legal marketing for 12 years after having earned a JD MBA from Case Western Reserve. Before starting Jubo Leads in 2015, he ran a legal marketing agency in Boston, helping law firms grow through online efforts like SEO and PPC. Ted was using the existing chat companies on the market, but didn't like how they were answering his clients' chats. So he fired them and started answering the chats himself. What started as one person answering chats for a few small firms in Boston has turned into a team of a little under 100 chat agents answering chats for about 1,100 firms around the country. I'm excited to have you here, Ted. Welcome. Thanks, Marilyn. Happy to be here. Absolutely. I would love to hear your journey of how you got to where you are.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. My journey started born and raised Martha's Vineyard, third generation islander. After high school, I realized there weren't a lot of jobs on the island outside of tourism and fishing. And I got sick in boats, so I knew the fishing wasn't an option for me. So went to college. Then after college, I was on the bait team and had a lot of fun with that. So I thought, oh, law's next. So went to work or went to law school, midway through law school. I'm like, I don't like this at all. And sorry,$100,000 in debt at that point. But they had a business program. So I could get my MBA in two years. So just tack it on to three. So it was after three years, I got a case with uh JDN MBA and wanted to focus in business. Floundered around, if I'm gonna be honest, for a few years, but then found my niche in the marketing space. Was working for an agency doing a content SEO up in Boston, and then I was they kept they weren't really doing it all that great. So I was kind of spread really thin across a lot of clients. But what if I take this idea and just handle a lot of SEO for a few clients? So I spun out on my own, got a few law firm clients utilizing that law firm background or that legal background, got pretty good in the SEO game, was doing that, and then I started just like you said, I was using different platforms and products. It was using Call Rail to track my calls and doing what everyone's doing now. And then my clients started getting hang up by the different chat companies. And I liked what they were doing, but they my clients kept complaining. So they kept saying, Okay, Ted, these chat leads, they're too far away, they're the wrong state, they're not asking the questions I ask them. So I would like yell at the chat companies because it was like my behind on the line here, Marilyn. They were saying, like, oh, hey, Ted, we'll make those changes, we'll make those changes. And they didn't do it. I my clients were getting frustrated at me because I was the middleman there. And I said, All right, well, you're fired. So I started answering chats myself, and it was pretty tough. It was chats would come in all hours of the day. I'd be in a meeting, and I was like, All right, how do I handle this? So I hired a few people on my SEO company to do that. And then when I got the really the tracking down, I was like, all right, when we were doing chats before with this other company, we're getting X number of leads. And then as soon as I customized the chat and made sure every chat was answered like in 12 seconds or less, we got about 50% at least more chats for each client. So I was like, all right, they're on to something. I'm on to something here. So it started as me answering chats, you know, just banging away on the keyboard when they came in 24-7, which my fiance now wife at the time wasn't thrilled with. It was tough to do, but I'm like, all right, I'm on to something. So it started as me answering chats for five, 10 clients in Boston, has now turned into us answering chats for about 1,100 firms around the country. And we work with the really big firms because we always make a we make a big claim that we say you're gonna get 50% more leads. So what we do is we give everyone a free 30-day trial so they can see the data up front because you can't say you're gonna get 50% more leads and then not do it. So we give them that free 30-day trial to prove it. And it's been a stable of our business since we started.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's incredible. And so you have a team that is 24-7, obviously, and catching the chats around the clock. And are they like connected to the CRM of the client? And so they're booking on their calendar straight from it. So they're literally getting qualified leads from their chat.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and our big thing is we qualify them based on the rules that the firm gives us. So every firm's different. Maybe a firm in Ohio only wants leads from Toledo. So, you know, we'll book them only in Toledo. So it's very customized chat. We didn't even realize it at the time, but when the other chat comes and tell me, Yeah, we'll customize those rules. There are some one of the biggest companies out there still, I won't say their name, but they don't even customize the script. It's always the same script for the firms. We're like, you can't really do that. So we take it a little bit step further. So it's customized rules for each firm, and then we can send them the leads we via email, we can call them, we can send it to their CRM, we can book consultations, we can even sign retainers right through chat. So however they want us, however far they let us take that lead, we'll do it for them.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's incredible. Is there any specific practice area that this works best for?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. All the major consumer-facing ones, personal injury, criminal defense, family law, bankruptcy, social security disability, estate planning, those are probably that probably represents about 90% of our clients.

SPEAKER_01:

Excellent. And do you find that, and this may, I'm sure you have data somewhere. Do you find there's a certain time of day that you get better leads?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, during the day, for sure. The crazies come out at night. We answer them as respectfully as we do the non-crazies. Everyone that wants to sue the government and send 10 paragraph questions and answers through chat, that those are usually the ones that come at 2 a.m.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh. Okay. And so are you doing a chat bubble? Are you connected to their lead form? Tell us about your lead capture for the law firms.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. There's a few different tools we have at our disposal. So the primary thing that we do is chat. So what that means is we pop up on the website, we either play a video of the law firm owner saying who they are, how they help. Then as soon as you click a button, a real person takes over, or we just pop up with a person saying, Hi, I'm Bill, how can I help you today? So that's method one. Method two is we answer text messages. So on the mobile website, we put a little text us. Message three is we answer local service ads. So in the local services, there's the call, two calls to action. There's a phone call and there's a message component. So we don't touch the phone calls, but we'll answer the LSA messages. And what's the fourth one? Oh, GPP messages. It's just about a six month now. In January of eight months ago now, GPP, the Google Business Profile, they have a new call to action in there called chat. So we can answer those messages as well. So that's our core offering. For about 35, 40% of our clients, we also follow up with form submits. So let's say someone fills out a form on their website. So maybe they just say, Hey, I need a lawyer. Okay. What does that mean? So we'll send them a text message. Hey, Bill, heard you're looking for a lawyer. Tell me about what happened. Okay, you're in a car accident. Where did it happen? When did it happen? And we can take it that form submit through all the way through a sign assigned retainer for them if they want.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. So the LSAs, I know that so you don't take the direct phone calls. So anything that's text, and of course, everybody loves texting now instead of actually getting on the phone. So you can handle all of that. What's the build-out time if someone wants to get that? Because I've seen the chat where you go to a website and then the attorney's talking and you just need to turn your volume on. And then, but the chat is right there, and that's really impressive.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the video really helps under a conversion perspective, and it helps on the continuity. So let's say they see the billboard ad, they see a TV ad of the attorney, and then they see that same picture, that same face on the chat, it's going to increase the likelihood of a chat start. So it's done wonders for our conversion numbers for our clients.

SPEAKER_01:

That's fantastic. Can you just have them record with their phone the welcome video kind of thing for simple? So I know attorneys don't like to do video.

SPEAKER_02:

They don't, and we try to make it as easy as possible for them. So we write a short script for them and basically say, sit in front of a camera. A Zoom is fine. So we've had teams that have done$10,000 video shoots and they look great. It doesn't do much to change conversion ratios. So like we've had really big famous law firms just sit in front of a Zoom and give me a 12, 15 second clip of who they are and how they help clients, and those convert just as well. So like the really fancy videos look great, they don't do a ton more from a conversion perspective. Clients want to see that that lawyer and humanize them. So just sit in front of a camera like you and I are doing now is perfectly fine.

SPEAKER_01:

That's great. That's good to know. That's the one thing that we try to coach clients with is just talk through the camera to the potential client. Don't get worried. You're not giving an opinion, just tell them who you are. And that's right, it's the no and trust. And I love the idea of the continuity of the messaging and the video visuals because you're obviously their pictures on the homepage, and there they are sitting in the corner talking. So very nice. Yeah. And and you answering it like in 12 seconds. What seriously, you're tax you're you're catching up.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So what we do is and to ensure that every chat that comes in, so we have our chat team, but we also have our QA team. So literally every chat that comes in is graded on a 12-point scale. And our agents are hired, fired, promoted, demoted, scored, and bonused based based on how fast they answer chats and how well they follow the rules for the given firm and how empathetic they are to the given chatter. So we really want to stress that human element. 62% of our chats start with a question. So it's not someone saying, like, hi, I need a lawyer. They come and say, Here's what happened. You think I have a situ you think I have a case? So usually it's if it's personal injury, it's I was in a car accident, here's what happened. Can you help me? So we want to lead with humanness. Oh, I'm very sorry that happened. I can't believe what you're going through. That sounds horrible. Just so you know, you're in the right place. So we want to build that trust, build that rapport. And then once we've done that, then we get into the qualification rules. So just building that human element, that rapport really goes a long way to kind of increase the likelihood of that prospect turning into a signed retainer for that firm.

SPEAKER_01:

That's fantastic. Because it's the big thing we're hearing all over the place for as far as tech goes is these AI chat bots. And I like the idea that you're going overboard to be that empathetic and making sure they know it's a human. Because I'll tell you, sometimes I don't, I when I'm chatting, it's hard to tell until you ask that right question. And it's, I'm sorry, I didn't understand the question. Well, if you were a human, you would.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly right. Exactly right. And we're seeing a rise of people giving, saying, like, is this real human? And we've tried a million and a half different responses. Now we just the most common one is I'm a human, I promise. Feel free to ask any questions. We've gone down the rabbit hole of ask me a question, a robot wouldn't know. And then it's a 10-minute conversation of them trying to test us, and they're like, There's no way to prove it. We just have to say we're human. And then we have more people questions because sometimes they'll think like when they start, they're like, tell me the recipe for a cake. And we're like, We're not a cake, we're not a bakery, we're a law firm. So it's like I we know that they're testing to see if we give like a GB a GPT response, and it's not, it's always a person.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, that's hilarious. Give me a recipe. It's like the guy who tried to get a Ford, what was it, F-150 for a dollar from an auto dealership? Did you see that? Yeah, it was worth a shot. Yeah, I mean, he even had the bot turn around and say this is a legal agreement.

SPEAKER_02:

I knew that for a dollar. Shoot, I should try that myself.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that was crazy. And so tell me a bit about how it works specifically. If I'm a law firm and I'm like, okay, I know I'm missing traffic, I know I'm missing chats. You see the text come in. We've got chat bubbles for some of our clients, and it but they're real-time chats, real-time SMS, but you need to get back to them and usually it's on SMS. So, what's the setup? How does yours work? And because it sounds like yours is such a much better process.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, you we refined it over the years. So now basically the process is we meet with a client, show them how it works, and say, Hey, you want to try this free for 30 days? Because we make that bold claim, you get 50 more leads. We say 50, it's usually if they're not using chat, that's an easy 80% win for them. If they're using chat, it's generally about 50%. So we AP test A B test the heck out of all our competitors all the time. So our number one gain of clients is oh, you're already using chat? You want more? All right, A B test us. And we say up front, hey, we'll A B test you would you give us permission to share the data, win or lose. And we don't we say that because we always win. So we didn't always first win. We've A B tested years ago, we lost a few A B tests, figured out why we lost, got ourselves better, and nowadays we win every test we A B test against. So how it works is they give a they get a they go on the meeting, we offer them a free trial, they sign up. We write chat scripts we think they want based on the conversation we had and in the initial meeting, and then the information on the website. And then two to three days later we present it to them, say, here's what we got. They say, Looks good, change this around, use this phrase, not that phrase. We say, All right, we give them the code, we get the integration set up, then we're live for 30 days. We check in on day one, two, 15, and then day 30. We sit down in a Zoom and basically say, Here are the leaves we sent you. How did it compare to the other chat company? How did it compare to last month? How many retainers did you sign? What do you think? And if they like us to move forward, if they don't, they walk away and they've spent zero dollars. So we have a 97% continuation rate after the free trial. So we just want a 30-day free trial to prove to them how effective chat can be for them.

SPEAKER_01:

That's an it's a no-brainer, absolute no-brainer. And how long does it take to get the code installed or get up and running, I should say?

SPEAKER_02:

If we have a meeting on a Monday, we're usually live by about Thursday.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, this sounds like an absolute no-brainer for uh for anyone that's looking to improve their website conversions for that. I love that. And so when it comes to intake, let's talk about that. So your team is they're not paralegals, they're literally like your regular intake office, front front office person. Are they specifically trained? I'm thinking about your team, that kind of thing. What are you doing for that and getting them up to speed to a specific law firm?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. It takes about from for every chat agent we've hired, we've probably interviewed about 80 candidates. So we have a lot of candidates we go through. So we're always looking for three main things empathy, speed, and ability to follow instructions. So we do a lot of tests beforehand, and then once we hire an agent, it takes them about three months to get full time. So we're always hiring for the future, just because we want to make sure when they hit the chats in their live, they're well trained. So it takes about two months to learn chat in general, and then a month to learn each specific practice area down to the minutiae of how they want specific chat answered. No two law firms are the same. So we want to make sure we get sufficient training on each and every one. Most PI firms are generally the same, but there's all nuance to how they want leads, either categorizations they want us to apply or different phrases they use, or maybe they want all leads in Ohio, but if it meets a different criteria, then they want us to sign a retainer. So we got to make sure we have that, our team fully trained on that. But about three months to get an agent fully live.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's impressive. And are most of your agents in the U.S.?

SPEAKER_02:

We have a mixed team. So our teams are in the US, in the Philippines. All team members, regardless of where they are, the same rules apply, the same scoring applies, and the same bonus structure applies. So it's a mixed bag, but there's no difference in scoring between our team members in the US and the team members in the Philippines. The main reason we have team members in the US, to be quite honest, is the Spanish language. So we're English and Spanish, but it's a lot easier to find Spanish speakers in the US, which is odd, but just for us, it's been how we do it.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. I love that. And what do you see as the next step in in the evolution of chat? If we're your butts, not bots. I love that you say that. So what do you see as the next big thing?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. LSA is gonna continue to get bigger and bigger. So adopt it, adapting to that. The next phase we're seeing is as soon as the AI rolls out some or the AI search result where it shows like a AR answers, they're gonna eventually have ads in there. Those ads, as Google moves more and more towards messages, Google discovered something not from themselves, but there was a few other companies in the home service businesses. And what they do is they would take a lead and they'd sell it three or four times. And they say, All right, whatever business gets a hold of that lead fast, gets it. And it worked out great for them, uh, because they're taking a lead and selling it four times. And then Google started doing the same thing with those LSAs because what a lot of people don't know about LSA messages is as soon as you submit an LSA message, Google takes that same Google prompts that user to send that same message to three other firms. So now instead of one message going to one firm, they're taking one message and saying it to four firms. So that's a huge win for Google. They just quadruple their revenue from at the expense of law firms. So, what that means is for LSA messages in particular, whoever firm gets in touch with that lead first wins. Everyone else is paying for it. So if you're slow to respond to those messages, you're paying a lot and you're not getting a lot in return because you're not even getting on hold of them. So one of the biggest growth factors for us is the LSA messages. We get firms on the phone with these LSA messages before anybody else, it gives them a clear market advantage. But what we discovered is since Google's making quadruple the money on LSA messages, they're gonna take that same learnings and apply it to other ad streams of revenue for them. So as soon as AI ads come out, and we heard they're always working on it. We've already heard rumors that they're getting released in some markets, that as soon as they put a message component in, that message component is gonna be world out the same way. I doubt it's gonna go to one where they can send the same message to multiple firms. So as soon as we are able to answer those, we'll be able to, as soon as they release those, we'll be answering those messages for firms as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've I'm in a network that has some quite a few home services agencies in it, and they're all running LSAs, and LSAs are fabulous. If they're available in your area and you're not doing it, you should look into it. But the message thing was noticed about six months ago, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. It's sneaky, and no one we didn't even realize it was happening. I got a call from a client and he was like, Hey, Tad, I appreciate this lead, but you're gonna get me sued. I'm like, why? He's like, You stole it from another firm. No, we didn't. So I looked and like panicking, like, all right, these what firm went wrong. What went wrong? He told us the firm, like, all right, we're not answering those chats. All our chats are or messages are for the firm alone we're answering them for. So we're like, no, this came in from yours. What's going on? So then we backtracked how the lead came in, and that's when we discovered it. We're like, oh, look what LSA is doing now. They're being sneaky. So the user submitted a message to a to whatever one of his competitors. We saved the message, called the firm, got him on the phone with them. Because we beat the because we beat our client to that message, the user didn't even realize they clicked that little button to send that lead to three other firms. So my firm was one of the three other firms. They beat him to the lead because we're fastest in the market, but the prospect didn't realize it. So I got that I got that same call from about two other firms in the same week. So we were like in a panic, but then we discovered it, we're like, oh, we didn't steal anything, we just gave you a distinct advantage by getting them on the phone first. So it ended up being a win, but it was quite scary when it happened. We're like, uh oh, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_01:

But that's a total panic. How did that happen? You just first go, okay, what broke in the system? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The funny thing is, LSA breaks all the time. We've had so how we do it is we manually log into the LSA accounts because at first it has an SMS notification, but that will randomly go down. Like in earlier in the year, there was a five-day span where no email notifications and no SMS notifications went out at all. So the messages come in and we rely on those notifications. So we saw that we had to do an all points bulletin. So instead of doing that, we would just literally have agents locked, they're always logged into the account, but just going account by account and seeing if there's a message in there every 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

Just refresh, refresh, right? Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02:

Literally, if it's 2025 and like we're doing that in a Google account, like why do we need to do that? But that LSA does break, so it wasn't beyond the realm of possibility.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow, that's completely interesting. And uh the other thing is that Google's using AI to determine the charging of the like a phone call. Yeah. So if you spend, say, more than 45 seconds on a call with a lead through the LSA call and they don't qualify, they're gonna charge you anyway. So they are encouraging people to be rude.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. We're always talking at law firms about this because they want to optimize LSA message side. We always say on the phone call side, if you have a prospect, get them off the darn recording as fast as possible. Because then if you take it, if you turn it down, I'd rather you turn them down outside of Google listening than have them have you have a conversation with them and then 10 minutes later turn it down. Get them off the Google, try to transfer it to a different line so the Google doesn't hear it as fast as possible. On the message front, what you want to do is if you're getting a lot of leads that are unqualified, first check your LSA account and make sure it's set up right. But two, what we're doing now for more clients is we're affirmatively telling the client you can't help them. So if we say in the mess, if we say something vague, I'll pass this along to the firm, we'll follow up and we can help you. You get in charge for that. Yeah. If it's let's say it's a PI firm and a family law lead comes in, we'll affirmatively tell them, Oh, this doesn't sound like a personal injury law. I'm not gonna be able to help you with this. That increases the likelihood of them getting the refunds for that lead. The flip side of that is if they get too many refunds and Google does it automatically now through AI, which is not great, but if they get too many refunds, all of a sudden you start noticing a decline in your rankings. So it's a mixed bag, and all the cards are stacked in favor of Google, unfortunately. So we just gotta play this.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, always. It's like the recommendations of PPC. You never turn those on. I've seen I've had people come to me and they just crash their entire ad because they accepted. Yeah, Google is up for Google's bottom line.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, those recommendations are like hey, you should be doing broad match, yeah. So you can come in for those the least legal prospects that come that can ever come in. So it's garbage recommendations for sure.

SPEAKER_01:

That is crazy. This is all right. So let's get back to I love what you're doing as being able to catch all of the text and chat for your clients. It just sounds like an absolute no-brainer to improve and increase the law firm. What would be the one takeaway that you would want attorneys or the one thing that you want to say, I love the 30-day free, but to let them know why working with you is can increase their bottom line?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. We've grown at least 100% each year for the past three years. We work with some of the biggest law firms in the country, and we do that because we like working with firms that know their numbers. So if I say I'm gonna get you 50% more leads, and a firm says, Well, I don't know how many leads I got last month, okay. Well, probably not a great fit. Because I rely on numbers. We do an A B, we're probably running about 30 A-B tests right now against different chat companies, against different scripts that give us different colors and pop-ups. So we need to work with firms that know their numbers because if we can't prove to you that 50% more leads matters, then we're not a good fit. So we're always working with firms that know their numbers and want to drive more cases. So the better a firm knows their numbers, the more effective we can be because they can see the kind of case results we bring to them.

SPEAKER_01:

Very cool. Yeah, the fact that you customize all of the qualifications, all the questions, the entire chat for a firm. I think you're the only one I've ever talked to that's doing that. Because, like you said, the other companies say we will, but they never do. Yeah. And I've experienced that with clients as well. It's like, how many times do I need to tell you this is not an appropriate question? This is what's going to be asked. It's crazy. So I love that you customize everything and your speed delete is something that is so very important this day.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, we see is if it takes us 30 seconds to answer a chat, we've already lost 40% of chatters. 30 seconds isn't a long time, but in a chat world, that's a daytime. So it's all about speed deleted. And then the next part that we don't control that we're trying to figure out how to solve now is once we get the firm on the phone, getting the firm to pick up the phone call when we call them with that lead. So once we hand that lead off, it's paramount the firm have someone available to take that lead right away, especially if it's a car accident or a big case, like can't give that prospect a chance to talk to another firm. So being able to follow up on the back end is just as important as the front end that we handle for you.

SPEAKER_01:

The consumer-facing law firms are catching people on their worst day or a really bad time in their life. So they need to solve that issue. Whether it's the your 19-year-old got arrested for drinking and driving, and it's the parents like anything to get him out of jail right now. Absolutely. Yeah, speed delete is incredible and incredibly important.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. This is this has been an incredible conversation. I tell you, if anybody's looking to improve their bottom line, definitely reach out. And I'll have how can everybody reach out to you and learn more about you, connect with you.

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. Go to juleads.com, start a chat on our website.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. We'll make sure we have that in the show notes. And definitely, guys, reach out to him if you're looking to improve your bottom line by getting making your chats actually revenue generating. Ted, thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_02:

It was great having me on. Great being on the show today, Marilyn. I appreciate you having me on. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to LawmarketingZone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

Host