Leadership In Law Podcast

S03E109 The AND Concept For a Fuller Life with Gary Mitchell

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 3 • Episode 109

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What if the choice between a thriving law firm and a fulfilling life is a false one? We sit down with Gary Mitchell, a veteran coach to law firm owners, to unpack a practical path to growth without burnout, what he calls the and mindset. Instead of forcing every owner into the same mold, Gary shows how to build leadership and management around the strengths you actually want to use, whether that’s being in the courtroom or steering the business from the helm.

Across the conversation, we map out the moves that matter: hire the right people first, then put them in the right seats; elevate an office manager or admin lead who can make 90% of the decisions you would; and install light, smart systems that eliminate rework and slow handoffs. Gary walks through his accelerator framework, independent 360 feedback, a crisp SWOT, and a tailored roadmap that prioritizes the biggest bottlenecks. The goal isn’t overnight transformation; it’s a series of small, compounding improvements that free your time and raise your margins.

You’ll hear real examples: a tax lawyer who built a multi–seven-figure practice while working in-office two days a week, and a Vancouver firm scaling faster once the owner let go of tasks he never wanted. We talk coachability, trust, and why coaching is really about buying time and shortening the learning curve. If you’re a growth-minded owner with three to twenty lawyers, these strategies meet you where you are and help you move faster with less stress.

Reach Gary here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/garyemitchell/
https://www.instagram.com/ontrac_coach/
https://www.facebook.com/ontraccoach#
https://ontraccoach.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@ontraccoach4514

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the first step of the Love Podcast. The host model, the actionable websites, and the firing stories delivered street, your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of the lot of firm ownership. From the looking exposive growth to building a thriving team, we connect to successful firm leaders, an industry experts, to start approved strategies and hard work with the floor. So whether you're a digital leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkin. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Gary Mitchell, to the show today. Gary has been helping lawyers for over 20 years build firms that actually support the lives they want, not drain them. He brings decades of business and leadership experience to show attorneys the things law school never covered. How to grow a team, run operations smoothly, and scale without burnout. Through his company On Track Coach and his law firm accelerator program, Gary helped law firm leaders boost profits, attract great people, and free up morph time for what really matters. I'm excited to have you here, Gary. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02:

Excited to be here with you, Marilyn. I have to get a copy of that recording. I don't know if I could say it better.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So I'm excited. Tell us a bit about your leadership journey. I know I I summarized that if you can fill in the blanks for us, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_02:

I guess the first leadership role I ever did was as a teenager. I was I was involved in this youth entrepreneur program. And I was 16 years old, and I ousted my best friend as the president of our company and took over control. And as I look back, I'm like, things not to do in leadership. So it's come a long way from that. I've been a student of leadership and business my whole life, a serial entrepreneur, starting my first business at 25, made a lot of mistakes, which is a lot of the value I bring to my clients, right? They don't have to make I've made a lot of them myself. And if anyone's honest as an entrepreneur, that's where you learn when you make mistakes. Right. Unfortunately, we learn less through success. Okay. But success is born of mistakes. If we're open and we're always constantly learning. And just I've studied people like Steve Jobs. Jim Collins is one of my favorite authors on the topics of business and leadership. I am putting these concepts into practice every day with my clients. And those who are open, right? Because it's not only better for the employees and the staff, it's better for the leaders because there's less, there's less friction, right? It's more open, it's empowering, it's unleashing, and you're getting the best out of your people with the right leadership principles. So I've come a long way since that first. I'm trying to think of what the program was called. Maybe it'll come to me. But it was really developing entrepreneur skills in young people, right? I love that. Starting at age 60.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And you you'd create a product that we had some kind of wood thing, as if I recall, but you had to create a structure from the business with roles and responsibilities. And it was like a mock business. And that was my first foray I get I took to it. And I guess I've always had that entrepreneurial bank.

SPEAKER_01:

I love that. I love that. Because I think a lot of our education system is educating employees. So when you see a young person that really is interested in entrepreneurialism, I'm like, that's a drive.

SPEAKER_02:

That's something that's my biggest dream, my BHAG that comes from Jim Collins' big, hairy, audacious goal is I would like to support an a school for entrepreneurism attached to one of the leading business schools in North America. That's the ultimate B hag for me. Because our teaching system, and again, there's a lot of good value in it, but let's face it, most entrepreneurs have to go through that learning curve and it's getting their hands dirty and trying things. That's not taught in school, in any school. Right. Right. MBAs are the best business schools in the world. And so I'd like to take a more practical approach, much the same as they do for the trades. Right. Right? Apprentice, like actually getting in there, trying things, trying. That's how, you know, I've got a client here in Vancouver where we've gone from, and I have to say this because like this is a new level for my career. I started coaching the owner in March. Okay. Rebranded one of the divisions, built a website, oversaw the building of a website. I'm now overseeing the marketing and a R HR function for two brands. Oh wow. That's an incredible amount of movement for that leader from March till recently to let go. Now, here's this brings up an important point. My role as a coach is to work around the strengths of the client.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

In this case, this client wants to be and play lawyer. He loves to be in the courtroom advocating for his clients. He's brilliant. He's a brilliant litigator. He really doesn't like the management side or leadership side. So what we have to do is build the leadership function and management function around him. He still has the final say. But he's got, he's, I don't need to know. Just go and do it. Go and do it. So I've implemented the whole new hiring system, and the paras love it, and the lawyers love it. We're gonna we're developing the employee handbook and policies and onboarding. And it's a dream come true, Marilyn. After 20 years in the legal industry, I'm at the forefront of building 2D brands from scratch. Wow. It's amazing. Amazing. And it's a per I say it's a perfect storm. It isn't all me. It's the fact that the owner recognizes his own strengths, what he likes, what he wants to be doing. And that's my glow focus. That's freeing him up. He really wants to focus on the integration side, travel throughout the world with his wife, opening up satellite offices. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. Yeah. Build that strength. Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Build from strength and build your team. That Steve Jobs, my favorite. He's had many quotes, but he's like my guru, right? And he's quoted as saying, we don't hire smart people so we can tell them what to do. We hire smart people so they can tell us what to do. And that's my mission as a leader overseeing HR. And I have to be patient because this is all new to them.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_02:

When they're coming with ideas, I said there are no wrong ideas, there are no bad ideas. There is no, I got it. I got feedback on a tagline yesterday from the senior lawyer, and she said, I'm sorry, I have to be frank. And I replied back to her, don't be sorry. I want you to be frank. There is no wrong answer here. But it's going to take some time for them to actually believe that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Because the norm up there is being dictated from a box. And I want to unleash the experience, the knowledge, even the paralegals, they're frontline with the clients every day. They're completely underdeveloped and undertapped for performance, for the growth of the firm. And I'm amazed being a coach and being able to see the future based on the past and what the steps we're taking. I'm incredibly prudently optimistic about what's possible for these two brands.

SPEAKER_01:

That's exciting.

SPEAKER_02:

That's just when it's I have the complete example opposite example, another client building the firm, and he loves the growth stuff. He could leave the legal like tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

He'll always dabble, he'll always keep his eye on the ball, but he could go, he could he could delegate 90% of legal to more lawyers, and he'd be the entrepreneur that's just dying to get out of the lawyer and grow his firm. So it's again, I never have a one-size-fits-all approach. It's not a it's not a rubber stamp cookie cutter.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we're different personalities, but I think you're right. You find what you really enjoy and you want to grow with that. And I love that part of your things is hiring great people. And I'm sure that part of that is getting the right butts in the right seats. Because as entrepreneurs, the first thing you do is you're hiring to fill a need, but that might not be the right place for that person.

SPEAKER_02:

So when you bring someone from the outside that sees the whole picture, we're actually we're actually going through that right now, and it's going to be an interesting process. So his admin assistant will be digging tomorrow, was not the right person in the right role. And this is an opportunity. So he has arbitrarily, and I just took on HR this month. Okay. So it's my third week. He arbitrarily made the decision to move one of his paralegals into that role. She's been an immigration paralegal. She's in her 50s. She's never done admin before. However, she has the qualities that I always say are the most important. She has an amazing attitude. She's positive. She's intelligent. She can think on her feet. She's open to coaching and learning. Now, having said all that, she's the right person. Time will tell if she's in the right role. And I had a call with her the other day, because I'm doing all this remotely. Okay. I had a call with her the other day and went over the process, gave her a picture of the future career path, said, My ear is always open. If you have a question or an issue, if someone is giving you the instruction and you don't understand it, please ask for clarification. And then I've also asked the managing partner, the owner, to do the same, and I must do the same. Very clear direction and be patient. She's in a new role. But this is going to be a really good example of what you just brought up. Most important first step when building your team is get the right people. Right. Because when you get the right people, you won't have to micromanage them or babysit. Correct. They're going to have next self-discipline. They're going to have the work ethic. They'll do whatever it takes. Then the next most important, royal lady already brought it up, make sure they're in the right roles. They could be the right person. They can have the best attitude in the world. But if we don't fit them into the right role, because everyone's different, and you can't, there's certain qualities that make admin people outstanding. And they love that kind of work, right? I'm not that kind of person. I could do it. I can. I've done it before, operations manager, things like that. But I like to be at the higher level, the more strategic level. And then there are people that are in there in the trenches, doers that get things done and they're organized and they can organize other people. That's what we're looking for. It's too early to tell if that, if that, if she can grow into that. But it's a really good example of going through the process and seeing, with all the support we can give her, whether it works out. You know, she's the right person.

SPEAKER_01:

I think when you find that the personality, I think there's a theory that you hire personality and then you train. So she's very good at what she does. She enjoys the other part. Now just giving her time to get into it and see that it's it is a good spot for her. Because as a paralegal and an admin, she gets the best of both worlds if that's what she enjoys.

SPEAKER_02:

This is the thing. And look, I want to help develop her. I'm not formally coaching her at this point yet, but I can see that happening because I worked with many office managers and people in that role. And I've seen like going back quite a few, 2019, I was coaching this office manager, and she was replacing it for Matt Leaves. I have I had been coaching the original office manager. I mean, she left for Matt Lee, and the replacement was 10 times better. Oh no. She was incredible. She took to it like amazing. Like that's my example of the type of people you want in that admin role. Wow. And worked together with for her for about eight, nine months. I knew she'd outgrow the firm. Was about a at the time it was about a nine-lawyer firm. I think they're up to 20 now. But I knew she'd outgrow that role. She was destined for that kind of admin leadership role. It went back to the original and she was good. She was good. The replacement was outstanding, like a gem.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

And that role, like a law firm owner, that is the most important, in my opinion, that's the most important staff function you're going to ever have. It's like your right-hand person.

SPEAKER_01:

And they have to be, like they say, if you make 90% of the decisions I would make, then the other 10% we can work through. So having someone you can trust that helps and has all of those things. When did you decide that you wanted to go into the coaching career path?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. It's an interesting story because I mean looking back in my life, you asked me if I've ever ended up coaching lawyers, and my fourth book, published book, is on the way. It'll be out in the spring. I'd look at you and wonder, oh, when did you start taking up crack? So I've always been involved with people. I've had a love of history, sociology, people, politics, my backgrounds in communications, marketing, circus, nonprofits, and a lot of politics. So I found myself in a situation, again, a perfect score. It's if I let myself out of my own way and let the universe guide my path, things work out well. I found myself in a position where I ran a nomination campaign for a lawyer. He was running to be the candidate for parliament, which would be the equivalent of the House, a House of Representatives in the United States. So he was in a very precarious situation, very green, like blank slate. We had 10 days for the nomination. I had a phone call with him, maybe 12 days before the actual date. This was all last minute. It wasn't supposed to happen. He found himself in a difficult situation. The next day I met with him in the boardroom of his prestigious business law firm in downtown Vancouver. I'd never been in a law firm office, let alone the boardroom. I did a letter phasely. I came with a plan. I said, this is what you need to do. This is what I'm going to do. This is how much it's going to cost. It played out exactly, he won the nomination.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_02:

In the background, there was a whole bunch of stuff that he wanted to avoid BS and normal, usual political stuff. And what he saw with me is that there was instant trust. I said, I said, this is what it's how it's going to play it. This is what how we win. He did. And so he was like really adamant about me becoming the campaign manager for the federal election. And I was like, no. It's one thing. It was just me and him for 10 days, 12 days, head down, website build, host event, coach him on speaking, design a flyer, a mailer to out to a membership. It was drop dead, nothing else for those 10 days. And it was some of the most fun I've ever had. Being a campaign manager now with a hundred volunteers or more and committees that he didn't.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah, there's so much.

SPEAKER_02:

And he said, Gary, quite honestly, I've been astounded at the work you've done with Tony, how you've been able to teach someone so highly intellectual two master's degrees, geology and law, in simple, not simple, people skills. Right. Right. Networking, speaking, interacting, all the opposite things that he had been trained in. And he went on to be credit due to him, he went on to be an amazing candidate and was up against two veteran candidates in the final debate of the campaign four days before the election on tele live television, and he beat them. Wow. This is like watching this transformation that I had a even a little part of it was an aha moment for me in my life. I was like, I've been used to being the one out in the spotlight. And now being it seriously watching it on the monitor in the studio of the at the television station, I was in awe. And so when his friend told me I should look at the legal industry, they needed help in business marketing, business development. I'm like, what? The legal industry's been around forever. And I started nine months of research. I knew a lot of lawyers, right? From my political background. I hadn't been the candidate in the previous election, but I had never run a game.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So it was a unique, it was a unique perspective, right? I had his back for sure, and he knew that, right? I always kept telling him, I'm gonna be giving you my frank advice, but remember it's your name on the side. So if you're not if you're not comfortable with something, you tell me I'm fine with that. So it was trust. Trust was built very quickly, and I can relate that to a recent with this firm owner in Vancouver. The trust has been built very quickly, and that's how I stumbled into coaching lawyers 20 years ago. And I'm so grateful. It's been quite a ride. It's never the same because people are never the same. I may be repeating strategies, improving them always. Of course, it's like a fixation I have to keep looking at how do we evolve this, how do I take it next level? And each client brings me more opportunity to do that. So that's how I've found my place here. No plans of going anywhere, just taking it up a notch. And now I'm working strictly with law firm owners and their teams.

SPEAKER_01:

Excellent. And when if someone is looking for what's the right time in a law firm to call you? So it would it be you're the coach or the accelerator programmer, how would the would someone progress to when do I know to call you? This is going to be a good time, and that sort of thing. Daniel, walk us through that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the ideal time is when the owner has had enough experience where they've experienced success and they've also experienced some failure or mistakes. They recognize they've taken the firm so far, and that if they truly want to grow it further, and not everyone does, then that's fine too, right? If you want to stay solo or small, one, two lawyers, three lawyers, that's fine. No judgment here. I'm not here to judge, I'm here to help my clients get to where they want to. But if they're on a stage where they recognize they've done well, but if they want to take it up a notch, they need help. So now what kind of help do they need? And I offer, of course, a consultation up front to see if I believe they're coachable. Usually by the time they pick up a phone, more than 75% I would say are coachable. It's then about finding the right fit. And it's an intangible thing, Maryland, coaching. Even though now, like 20 years ago, it was like I was one of the pioneers. Now there's tons of people in this sandbox in this field. And that doesn't scare me. It actually empowering because now I'm not the only one on the mountaintop. You can have help, you can get help. There is a better way. Yeah, there's lots of people out there doing this, but I think my approach is I don't know, there's a lot of psychology in it, a lot around mindset, right? I believe in the and mindset, which is the whole mission, right? Successful law firm and more freedom in your life, whatever freedom means to you.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

It's not horror, it's not but it's and when they get that, when they grasp that as either possible, they're right, they're ready.

SPEAKER_01:

I would think they're still gonna be yeah, I would think that if they picked up the when you're talking about the teachable coachable, that makes complete sense. If they take in, if they take the opportunity to pick up the phone, that means they are open to growing as a person in a business, yeah, growing something. That's right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and then if they understand that and a lot of them will scoff, right? A lot of them will no, that's not possible. There is no such thing as work-life balance. Have you truly started out? If you start out with that mindset, you're right. There will never be a work-life balance. But if you start out with the and mindset, it's definitely possible and doable. I've seen it. One of the inspirations for my upcoming book, I still don't have a title for it, but it just may end up being and that's it. It might, right? I don't know. We'll see, time will tell. One of the inspirations was working with this tax lawyer in Long Island, and she was telling me about her story, and she, a veteran tax lawyer, built a multi-seven-figure tax firm in Long Island, working two days a week in the office.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice.

SPEAKER_02:

She was raising, she made the priority of raising her two children. So she would be working from home, yes, but she was only two days a week in the office. None of the clients knew, the staff knew, of course, it didn't matter. She carved her own way to support her wife. And she says to me with a big smile on her face, she goes, You can have it all. You just can't do it all on your own. And I was like, I'm using that for the rest of my career because that's that's those are words out of the mouth of a successful lawyer that has proven this theory to be true. There's many more. There's many more. I could go on. There's going to be case studies in the book, but co-founders, they leave their firm respective firms on the Friday, they open up their new shop on the Monday, they haven't looked back. Six locations, three MATLABs, COVID, cancer scare, and they keep growing because they built the foundation and they built it their way. And it just become a mission now, Marilyn, that at least, at the very least, I want to get the word out that the end is possible. Because I've seen so much carnage, yeah, so much anxiety and stress and burnout, and it's unnecessary. Like I really respect lawyers of how much time they put into their careers. First of all, their education, and especially those who have worked at the big firms, the hard knocks years as an associate, they've really put a lot of time, effort, and investment into their careers. I want to see them succeed. Yeah. And whatever that means for them, because it's different for everyone. Yes, that's not my job to define it. No, my job is to help my clients achieve it. That's it. I love that very, very. COVID turned everything upside down in in many good ways. In many good ways in the for the workforce. And so it's just again, if you start out believing it's not possible, then it won't be. Right. But if you change your mindset, what if it was possible? How could it work? And some I have to start that slow. They need proof first. They're lawyers.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

We need to see some evidence. And that's fine. I understand, I understand that fully. I'm really happy to provide that evidence. And I love when I see the light bulb come out in their eyes. I love it.

SPEAKER_01:

The idea I can have what I want to make me happy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's a sense of utter relief.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

No longer chained to my desk. I'm no longer chained to the office. I can have a life.

SPEAKER_01:

I can play golf on Wednesdays. I love that.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. It's pretty fulfilling. It's pretty fulfilling, I must say.

SPEAKER_01:

How does your law firm accelerator program work?

SPEAKER_02:

Again, it's not a cookie cutter, but it's what it's designed to do is I start out with the SWOT analysis for each owner. Actually, we start out with a 360. I have a second outside professional company. They go out and do a 360. So they have the staff around the law firm owner conduct surveys and get the feedback from the staff. They interview the owner and we look at the reports and see the difference, right, between the owner and the staff. Then I will do a SWOT analysis, strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats, and really get in to understand what it is the owner wants, what role do they want to play. Like I gave you two examples. One wants to stay in the courtroom lawyerate, advocating for clients. The other wants to actually be at the helm guiding the growth of the firm, leading, mentoring, all of that. So we get those first two steps are critical to be crystal clear on the model we're going to build. Then we build start to build the team around the law firm owner. And depending on the situation, depending on who they currently have and what roles they play, again, we'll determine next steps. It's never, it's never the same, right, with each client. Right. And you may imagine, right? Some clients will have lawyers who are really adept with social media and marketing and love contributing. So we need less marketing support. We need we need more admin structure and systems, right? Some clients have no systems for anything. Right. So we start there. I'm a systems guy. It's gotten so bad, Marilyn. I'm cooking, I love to cook. I'll be cooking and I'll be in the middle of doing something I've done a hundred times, and all of a sudden I come up with a new way of doing it because it's more efficient. My brain has coached by coaching for 20 years and I can't help it now. I'm always like, okay, that's good, but what if we tweak it just a little bit? And it's those little tweaks that Anna over time compound and become transformational, quite honestly. When people hear the word transformation, it often scares them.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Or they don't believe it. Or they don't believe it.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's be fair, let's be real. Transformation doesn't go mean going from here to here overnight. Transformation is about making a number of small but impactful tweaks or changes that over time add up, and all of a sudden it looks like it just happened overnight. The self-made person, no such thing, no such thing. Overnight success, no such thing. No such thing. There's a lot of stuff going on in the background. And see, that doesn't scare me. I thrive in that. I thrive for continually learning to get better at something. And so I often joke, I'm like I've all I've always been a sucker for punishment. I w I ran for parliament, and I chose the most challenging audience on the planet to get started with coaching. Skeptical, critical, risk-averse. So I feel almost honored. Like I wear it with a badge of honor. I'm working in this industry with highly intelligent people, and that I can give them what they want. My first client framed it. He said, and this is after the months of research I did, but he had chosen me, and he'd chosen me over two experienced legal marketers. He told me this. He said, Gary, I want what you have. I'm already a good lawyer. I want your entrepreneurial mindset and drive. It was very clear to me. I'm not for I'm not in some ways. I do help them become better lawyers because there's client service and practice management involved in all these programs. But as far as the lawyer, my my role is on the business side. So he framed it up from the very beginning.

SPEAKER_01:

I love it. Expectations, and it's clear.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So again, the accelerator speaks for itself. It's accelerated progress, accelerated growth, accelerated learning curve around the minefield of mistakes. Both the ones I've made and other clients have made. I look at it from the upside. If I'm a business owner and there's someone that has been in my shoes, has done what I want to do, and can help me navigate those minefields of mistakes, shorten the learning curve, and get me to my goals faster. Why wouldn't I engage?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Coaching is buying time. It's simple and to the point. You're speeding to where you want to be with what this one is.

SPEAKER_02:

And it's not a it's not a sign of weakness at all. Look at Olympians or the most elite athletes. I always go to that because I admire the utter awe, right? Of the utter discipline, focus, and just complete what's the word I'm looking for. They're all in, right? And to get to even like like a high level, not even the elite level, is amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. The commitment.

SPEAKER_02:

Those that get to elite level, they've got a team of coaches around.

SPEAKER_01:

True. True. So, in just to be respectful of your time, when would be the perfect time, or what size of law firm is the best that you work with? It's a terrible waiting as the card.

SPEAKER_02:

Probably probably at least three to five lawyers.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

So they're not in the startup phase. As I said, they did enjoy some success. They've got some wins. They are growing, but they're starting to now recognize honestly, most business owners don't really know what they don't know until they've been doing it for a couple of years. Startup no timeline, it's hard to say because it again, each firm will be different, right? Some firms grow really quickly out of the gate, others take longer. So I wouldn't put a limit on that, but I would say at the lower end, three to five lawyers, and at the top end, uh 20, 20-ish. Okay.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It depends on what the goal is of the owner or all theirs. And when you're getting up to the 20 lawyer, then you there's often more than one sure, more than one building. I work with co-owners. I do that as well. That's fun too. Because then we divide and conquer. If you have two co owners, one's really more aligned with the back end stuff, the financials, the systems, all that, and one's really face like front faced with the marketing, business development, things like that. And when we have two, then I divide and conquer and focus again. On their strengths. Right. And then you wanted to know the process more. So then we start with the owner and then we go through the entire firm with that same model. Lawyers, getting them in the right roles, building around their strengths, building their teams, paralegals, LAAs, all the way down, including everyone.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice.

SPEAKER_02:

But it starts with the top.

SPEAKER_01:

And it has to.

SPEAKER_02:

You're looking at systemic changes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Gary, this has been very interesting. I've enjoyed chatting with you and learning about your programs. I know my listeners will want to reach out to you or connect with you. Where would be the best place for them to do that?

SPEAKER_02:

OnTrackCoach.com. There's no K.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

It's double C, on trackcoach.com. And I'm happy to speak with law firm owners and chat about their situation, what their goals are, and how I might help them.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. I'll make sure that those links are in the show notes. And again, thank you so much for being with us today. And yeah, if anybody le reach out to him if you want to look in at actually getting what you want in life, building, building the firm you want, and see what you can work out.

SPEAKER_02:

I'll leave it with this, Marilyn, and thank you so much for having me on your show. I really appreciate it. You're an awesome guest. I'll leave them with this. If they're interested more, if they're more interested in learning, sorry, if they're interested in learning more about the and concept, we should talk.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I love the and concept. You can have it all. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

In fact, maybe that's I love the book, the and concept.

SPEAKER_01:

Hey, that sounds good. Nice. All right, Gary, thank you so much. I really appreciate having you today. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to LawmarketingZone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

Host