Leadership In Law Podcast

S03E112 Strategic Tax Planning Tips with Emil Abedian

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 3 • Episode 112

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Numbers don’t build a law firm, owners do. This conversation with Emil, a CPA who serves only solo and small firms, shows how to replace once-a-year tax prep with a clear, repeatable system for growth. We pull back the curtain on what separates firms that double from those that stall: clean monthly books, a true owner mindset, and a proactive tax plan that turns the code into cash flow.

We start with the biggest blind spot in small practices: running the firm from the bank balance. Emil explains how accurate bookkeeping and quarterly reviews transform guesses into decisions, hiring with confidence, allocating marketing as an investment, and measuring trends before they become problems. A real-world story of two partners who built for scale on day one reveals the power of intent: design the business you want, then staff, track, and finance it like a CEO.

From there, we get tactical. Emil lays out the “PRO” framework, Plan, Roadmap, Opportunities, and shows how missed planning windows can cost hundreds of thousands. We dig into the Pass‑Through Entity (PTE) election for high‑tax states, why deadlines matter, and how a simple deposit can unlock a federal deduction. Then we go deeper on bonus depreciation, cost segregation, and the self‑rental election that allows commercial real estate losses to offset law firm income without real estate professional status. Whether you’re hiring your first associate or eyeing a building purchase, you’ll hear the timing, math, and checkpoints to make confident moves.

Reach Emil here: 
Counsel to Counsel on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3KB42ie
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilabedian/
https://www.facebook.com/people/Counsel-CPAs/61559571126044/

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SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to the Leadership in Law Podcast with host Marilyn Jenkins. Cut through the noise, get actionable insights, and inspiring stories delivered straight to your ears, your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team. We connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who share their proven strategies and hard-won wisdom. So, whether you're a season leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02:

With more than 20 years of experience, Emile saw the gap in traditional accounting for lawyers and built a proactive, advisory-driven approach covering tax planning, financial analysis, and operational strategy. He also serves as CFO and board member of several organizations and is the author of the upcoming book, Council to Council, where he shares practical financial strategies for law firm entrepreneurs. I'm excited to have you here, Mia. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Marilyn.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. I'm excited for the conversation today. Can you tell us a little bit about your leadership journey?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. As my bio kind of described a little bit, I'm a CPA with founder of Council CPAs. We are a CPA firm working exclusively solo in small law firms. That's not always been the case. When I first started, I don't know, God knows 16, 17, 18 years ago, probably for myself. Prior to that, I was working for firms, but I took on any client that walked on my way. They wanted a tax return. There was a construction business, a restaurant, law firm, doctor. And I pretty quickly noticed that we can't continue that route. I gotta kind of specialize and niche down. And that's where we are now. Many years down the line, I let all the non-law firm clients go. And we only work with law firms now, which is a blessing.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Specializing definitely makes us make sense. So when we're when we think about a CPA, we think about it as somebody that that files your taxes. How do you explain the difference between compliance accounting and financial strategy?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And unfortunately, way too many CPAs are just compliance CPAs where they see their clients once a year, they get their financials, put it into tax software, spit out the return. Ciao, see you next year. And I don't blame them. I've been there myself. That's how I started, that's how I what I was doing initially. But that's not, I think we sit on so much information, valuable information as accountants and CPA, that it's a waste of resources, I think, for our clients, whoever our clients are, whoever our niche market is, to act, just do tax work. Because if someone comes to me for just tax work right now, and excuse my voice here, I don't know. I think I'm getting something right now, but we'll try to run this session. But if someone walks in the door to me for me right now, ask for just a tax preparation, I won't take them on as clients because I think I will be doing them a this favor. If you just want a tax return, I think Agent Rubberlock is perfectly fine. You walk in there, they give you your return, but that's all you're getting. You're getting your return back, tax return back. But the difference is when you work with your clients throughout the year as an advisor, we call us strategic partners. You could be the same as advisors, but when you do that, you see their operation on a regular basis. I see what's happening throughout the year, and not just on the piece of paper of financials in January, February, or March to prepare a return, which gives us a tremendous opportunity to come in and make changes, advise them to strategize, not only to save in taxes, that's obviously number one thing, but also to actually look at their business from a bird eyes view and see what's happening really. Instead of just digging into your operation, doing the work, working in the business, it gives them an opportunity to actually step back a little bit and actually work on the business instead, to be able to grow it as a business rather than just a practice.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. I love that. Getting a big picture of it. And when you first meet a solo or a small law firm, what do you find is the most common blind spots that you uncover for them?

SPEAKER_01:

Most of the firms that we work with, solo and small law firms, that they don't know what their numbers look like. That's a very common fact where they're on their firm, they know how much money they have in the bank account, they know roughly how much their expense is gonna be in the next few months, but that's about it. That's not, in my opinion, that's not running a business. You need to know your numbers. Where am I spending my numbers? Well, my spending my dollars on. Is this the money that we're spending? Is this actually an investment is meant an investment for us or an expense? Employees, for example, are investments. Marketing, it's an investment. You gotta change that mindset and look at it as an investment rather than a cost. Because if you look at it as a cost, why are you spending it? There's no point spending m money if it's not gonna generate anything back for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

We're running a firm because we run we want to run a business. Most of us, whoever, whatever business you're in, you open up a business to run a business. You didn't open up a business, you didn't open up your firm to run it as if you're an employee of another company. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02:

No, we're gonna train a job for a job.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. If you're gonna work some, if you're gonna trade it for against the job, like work somewhere else without a headache, no worries about hiring, firing, bringing in clients, you just do your work and go home if that's what you want to do.

SPEAKER_02:

Makes sense. Exactly. We wanted we did something special, so we want to make it something special.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think most law firm partners who open up their firm have that back in their head somewhere, really deep in. The challenge is to actually put it forward, actually focus on that rather than all the other noise around us and focus on. I open up my firm, I rather I should put my business owner hat on now, and not only my professional hat, we need to have the professional hat. We're lawyers, we're CPAs, whatever profession we are in. That's how we're trained. We need to provide value to our clients, we need to be professional towards our clients, but we must put the business owner hat on also, because otherwise the firm will struggle.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think you get lost in the weeds of the day-to-day in being reminded that you need to look at the big picture because you started a firm for a reason. Again, if you wanted a job, you could have gotten a job.

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly. Exactly. You probably had a job before you open up your firm. Yeah, exactly. Most likely.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. So thinking about how to do this right, what financial habits separate firms that grow year over year to those that get stuck at the same small revenue level?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. We talked, we touched a little bit on the business owner hat, business mindset hat on. Basically, you start thinking like a business owner rather than just an employee of a company. That's number one. That's I think that's you need to change your mindset to get this work. And I'm gonna give you an example of one of my clients where I used to work with him from another partnership. He was a lawyer, he had a partnership, that partnership they dissolved it. So he partnered up with another another uh lawyer, and he called this is maybe 12, 13 years ago, maybe even longer, way pre-COVID, where downtown Los Angeles was still busy, people were actually going into the offices. So he called me in one day and asked me to go into his office in downtown LA, his new office with his new partner. And that this story is, by the way, in my book, which I probably should update my bio. The book is out already since a couple of months ago.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's in the book, and it's really interesting because they really made it. They really thriving, they really built a it's a machine. It's really fun to see them. So he called me and I went into his office. It was probably, I don't know, three, four, five thousand square feet, big office in downtown LA, one of those high-rises. Open up the door. I was I thought there would be like at least 20, 30 people in there. It was just two of them. Just the two owners sitting there and uh say what the hell? His name is Alan, one of the partners, Alan, what's happening? What are all these desks for and offices for? Nobody's here. What's happening? Say, Emil, don't worry about the desks. How can you help us? And that actually really stuck with me. Where they opened up their firm even before they had clients, they were ready to rock and roll. Wow, they had the business, they were prepared, they had the business owner hat on. Today, maybe 12 years later, there are 150 employees, if not more, right now. They have their own building in downtown what that they bought. They have 40 to 50 attorneys just working for them, not in not including the staff. So over 150 employees. So that's the difference. I think that is a major difference where they walked in into their business with the business owner hat on from day one. We don't necessarily have to have it from day one. Like we had we we could possibly grow into it. I did it. I didn't have any idea of what I was doing 17, 18 years ago. I just wanted to put some food on the table for my sake. But as you go, if you want to keep on building your operation, you must change your mindset. So that's number one. I think that we discussed that. Second, is not only that you need to have your business owner hat on, but you need to understand your business. You need to look at the numbers and not only the service. When I say understand the business, not only the services that we provide, because most lawyers are great lawyers. They get great education, they're fantastic lawyers, they're great in courtrooms, they're great drafting documents, they're great negotiators, but they don't look at their business from above to look at what's happening in my business right now. This additional employee that I brought on, what is this additional employee gonna generate for me? Or this additional$50,000 marketing cost that I'm uh budgeting for, how much is this gonna generate for me? They don't do that. And that's another thing that sets the successful firms apart is that they regularly look at their numbers and they contact us. Like they want this. When we get new clients that are in the kind of development mode, I can tell from their conversation that this firm, this partner is really on track to get somewhere because they ask me these questions. They don't have the answers because no one really sat down with them and looked at the numbers. And most of the time they're not accountants, obviously. They're lawyers, they don't understand the number. They don't have to understand it. As long as someone breaks it down for them and gives it to them. As a CEO, as a managing partner, you don't necessarily have to look for information. Someone has to provide it for you. And but they need to realize that this information is valuable for them and they need to seek for it. And that's a major difference between thriving firms and firms that are just there.

SPEAKER_02:

Say you you're at the point you need to add more staff to get more cases. So, what would be the first financial system that you or process that you would help it put in place to see can I afford this new staff member?

SPEAKER_01:

Number one, you need to have regular, ongoing, and accurate bookkeeping. It sounds very simple, it's just bookkeeping, but it's the fundamentals of operations, it's the fundamentals of business to have legit, accurate, reliable financial statements on a regular basis. Not once a year when you file a return. That's useless. That's just for your compliance work, you give it to your CPA, they prepare a return. But ongoing, regularly have accurate financial statements, which we look at together. We sit down, me and my team go over my the financial, my clients' financial statements at least on a quarterly basis, sometimes on a monthly basis, where we review this financials, we look into this, okay. Do we even have the budget to hire this additional attorney for 130,000, 140,000, whatever that cost is? If not, okay, how do we get this money? Because we really want to grow. And in order to grow, I need one more attorney to push this to the next level. So, how do we do it? Is it through personal financing? Do I have saved up money? Does the firm have enough money? If not, what do we do? We go outside of the box. Okay, when there might be some lenders out there lending specifically towards lawyers. If not, then traditional SPA loan, whatever the venues could be. But uh you need to look at the numbers first of all and see where we're lacking. Do we need the funds? A lot of times firms actually have the funds and we just have to allocate it correctly. Are we spending it in the right place? Do I really need to buy that luxury car this year? Or should I just put it aside and put that money into an employee instead who will generate five times or even more than that for me in the next couple of years, and then I can buy the luxury car.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that those are the things that we need to look at and break it down for the attorneys. They see attorneys' mindset is a little bit different. A lot of times, they're attorneys, they look at the law, they're and they're so busy with what they do. They see the numbers, they see the bank account, they have money or they don't have, or they're struggling, but that's just on the surface. Once you dig into the details and break those uh accounts down to the kind of details, it gives them a lot more insight and help to make the right decisions. Educated decisions. Sometimes there's still risks. Running a business is a risk. There's no one, there's no no such thing as no risk in business. But you better have the tools in place to make educated risks rather than just gambling in Las Vegas.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. And I think looking at your numbers on a monthly basis, depending, especially if you're in a growth pattern, is it also helps you see, and of course, proper categorization helps you see trends. And if you can see trends, you can either exploit them if they're going in the good direction or correct them if they're not. So that's exactly pretty amazing there. Absolutely. So if you thinking about your clients, what is one or two advanced tax strategies that law firms often overlook?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a very good question. And really tax plan at this time of the year, by the way, we do a lot of tax planning and we get a lot of new leads, and a lot of clients come to us because they they've just filed a return, they paid so much in taxes, they don't want to do the same mistake again. And the first thing I tell them, Erlen, X, Y, Z, I'm not a rocket scientist, I'm not a doctor, I'm not going to the moon, I'm a CPA. And everything is in the tax code. We're not doing anything hookus pucus. But the key is planning. I created this acronym, fun little acronym, pro because attorneys are pros, professionals. And in order to be able to do proper tax planning, you have to be pro. The P stands for planning. The R in the O in the pro is roadmap. And the O is opportunities. You have to plan to create the roadmap to offer you the opportunities. If you don't do the first one, you won't get the roadmap, you won't get the opportunities. So it's number one. It's so important that do planning, and not only once a year, but throughout the year. That's number one. So I can tell you whatever strategies I know, if you don't do planning, it all goes to waste. But I'm gonna tell you a couple of good ones now so the listeners can take some good stuff with them. For four years ago, there's pass-through entity tax deduction came up. I don't know if you're familiar with it, but it's a deduction basically allows specifically states with high taxes, such as California, New York, and other states with high taxes to take advantage of it. By the way, many states took after after this, but it allows you to pay your personal state taxes through your business, through your flow-through business, from your S Corporation, LLC, partnership. That could be huge. I'm gonna give you an example right now. We just signed up a client not too long ago. Two partners, they're very successful, they're making three million dollars combined with two partners. And this and they've been doing that constantly for several years. They just signed up with us, so unfortunately, we cannot go back and change the past. But this tax code got in effect 2021, 21, 22, 23, 24. They missed out on this. And they're in California. So three million dollars per year in profit over four years, that's$12 million in profit. This tax deduction allows you to pay 9.3% of your profit towards your personal taxes. It's a tax that you anyways have to pay from your personal account after tax dollars. But this the election will allow you to pay it with your business funds and deduct it. So 9.3, I'm gonna need a calculator right now.$12 million over four years, type 9.3%, that's over$1.1 million in deduction. That is in California that they missed. They're in a top bracket with these kind of incomes, which is a 37% bracket. This gives you federal deduction, not a state deduction. Even though it's a state taxes you're paying on your personal on your entity, you get a federal deduction, 37% of that, over$400,000,$412,000 in lost or overpaid taxes.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

Why? This is not rocket science. I'm not telling you anything. This is in the code. And I would almost put my name on it that nine out of ten CPAs know about this, but if you don't plan for it, you miss out the opportunity. Because there is a small deposit that you have to make towards this to be able to elect it. And if you don't make it timely, boom, it's lost. And if you don't work with your CPA throughout the year, you'll lose it.

SPEAKER_02:

And so they've just lost out on that. So going forward.

SPEAKER_01:

They lost that.

unknown:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

They're going forward. So now they come to they came to us this summer, so we were able to give them the deposit amount to pay timely. So from 25 and on, they will be able to take advantage of it. So every year, we've already will save what is it, over$100,000 every year in tax savings with this kind of income.

SPEAKER_02:

That's absolutely amazing. So you definitely want to talk to your CPA and do some planning.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. This is you, it's so easy, so simple, but it's so big that it's it's like ridiculous. Like losing out four hundred thousand dollars a year, four hundred thousand over four years. I would not be happy with my CPA if you missed out that.

SPEAKER_02:

No, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01:

On the other hand, I don't always blame the CPAs. I have to protect them also because it's the relationship that's mattered. I don't think the CPA didn't know it. I'm pretty sure he knew it. But it's the relationship with the client that really didn't allow them to do it because the relationship with them is most likely come to me once a year, I file a return, that's about it. Now, whose fault is it that the relationship is that? Is it the CPA's fault that they didn't tell the client that they could do more, they could do planning, they do good advisory, or is it the client's fault that they didn't want that? I don't know whose fault it is, but it doesn't matter whose fault is. They missed it out on it. Do not do that mistake.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think part of it is too that we're just as business owners conditioned that you have a CPA for this reason, and we don't really think about strategic planning until someone goes, Did you really think this through? There's so many things. And to my thought, the IRS code is constantly changing. So you need someone that's in your on your side to help you make sure you're doing it correctly and not just filing the right taxes.

SPEAKER_01:

So to your point, I think you're right. I think it's the CPA that needs to put the game plan in place. And that's how what we do right now. If someone comes for just for taxation preparation, I'll tell them, if that's what you want, I'm not a good fit. Because then I won't be able to give you this deduction. Because if I see you once a year, I won't be able to. That is, I'm not gonna lie. So if you want to work with me, you have to work with me throughout the year. So I don't want you to go to your neighbor or your friends and talk shit behind me. So my CPA didn't advise me this. I don't want that. I don't need that. So it it is partially CPA's firm or CPA's fault that they didn't lay out the uh kind of the program for the client. But anyway, that's one thing. Talking about tax changes all the time, as we all know, most likely with the one big beautiful bill that got passed early this year in July. Some of it is are good, some are not as good. But we as professionals, as CPA firms, need to look at the good things and take advantage of it, obviously, for our clients, because there are bad things in it also that will cost some money. But the good parts of it is the bonus depreciation was extended, which was expiring. But bonus depreciation means that if you buy a piece of equipment, historically, that equipment needs to be depreciated over certain years, depending on the asset. Let's say you buy uh furniture, just to simplify it. That furniture you bought it for ten thousand dollars, you can deduct five thousand two thousand dollars every year, so over five years. Okay. But the bonus depreciation allows you to deduct all of it up front, so it gives you a lot more aggressive depreciation in the initial year you purchase it. This came this was in place for years, it was 100%, it went down to 80 and then 60, and then this year is 40, 2025, it's 40. But with one big beautiful bill, that got extended to 100% again. Okay, which means that there's a lot of good planning that could be done with bonus depreciation, with uh typical assets that we buy for business, but more specifically with real estate. Okay, real estate in combination with bonus depreciation is tremendous, it's huge, it's just it's just mind-blowing. And the more I think about it, this American tax code is built based on real estate investments. If you're in real estate, you can get away with a lot of taxes, and that's what these big politicians are doing. They utilize the bonus depreciation in combination with real estate to offset their income against their other income. For lawyers, for example, that law firm that we I mentioned, who are 150 employees plus right now, they bought their own property when the bonus depreciation was 100%, back in a few years ago. It's back again, so it's the same idea. So they bought it for$10 million, which is a big chunk. You don't have to buy it for$10 million, by the way, but this is a simple example. They bought it for$10 million, bonus depreciation was 100%. Since they're renting the property to themselves, it's a self-rental categorization, which allows them to deduct the real estate losses. Real estate losses are not always deductible, keep in mind. You need to plan for it. Unless you're a real estate professional, which means that you spend more than 750 hours a year and more than 50% of your total activity within real estate, which means if you're a lawyer and work 2,000 hours as a law firm partner or lawyer, you need to spend at least more than$2,000 in real estate to qualify a real estate professional, which is practically impossible. You can't work for$4,000 a year.

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's not gonna work for lawyers. But if you buy commercial property or any property that you, your firm, is leasing from your own property of you as a property owner, we make an election and combine that tax-wise so that you can offset the depreciation now or the losses from your real estate against your law firm income.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Without being a real estate professional. And that's what we did with this client. We made that election for this client,$10 million property. They got up close to$2 million in depreciation the year one they bought it. Wow. With 37 37% bracket, they offset their law firm income$800, what is it, eight, nine hundred thousand dollars in tax savings the year they bought that property.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow. So having a strategist obviously saves you a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

I yeah, that that's this this was my this was a great example, but you don't have to have a$10 million property. You can start small. But you do that, bonus depreciation. Keep in mind also, I didn't mention how they got the two million dollar. They baked in a cost segregation study. Cost segregation study means that you bring in an engineering company,$2,000,$3,000, or$3,000,$4,000 cost to do that, nothing compared to the$900,000 tax savings you had. They break down the property in different components. Instead of depreciating it over 39 years, which is a real which a commercial property, the general rule is that the commercial property needs to be depreciated over 39 years. They did it a lot more aggressive, baked in with bonus depreciation, and got this$2 million deduction year one. Otherwise, without that, it would be roughly they would get probably$130,000 to$150,000 depreciation year one. Instead, they got$2 million depreciation.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh well. Obviously, proper tax planning. Wow. So this is it's so amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

And this is nothing rocket science. I told you, I'm not going to the moon, I'm not a scientist, I'm not any special than any other special CPA. But you need to plan. You need to be a pro. Plan, creates roadmap, gives you opportunities. Keep that in mind.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. So speaking of that, what at what point is a good time to call you? To to when is the ideal time for a smaller solo firm to reach out to you and say, I need strategy?

SPEAKER_01:

I work with firms that are just starting off, solo guys, basically zero revenue almost, all the way up to two hundred. The biggest client we have is probably 200, 250 employees. But we don't do any bigger than that because typically the structure changes. They have their own CFOs, they have their own accounting departments. We won't be able to provide value. We can prepare a return for them, but that's again, I don't want to do that. We prepare returns because that's compliance work. We have to prepare returns. It's everything up to the return that's fun to do and can provide value. So we work with firms that are starting up. It's not how small they are or how big they are, it's what their mentality is. For firm, I'd rather work with a firm owner that is zero in revenue but want to grow rather than a firm owner that has already a million dollars that want to stay stagnant. Because that's not fun anymore. If you want to stay where you want to are where you are, yeah, I can help you a little bit, but I'd rather work with a firm that are zero and want to grow their firm or and want to do the right things.

SPEAKER_02:

Again, business owner mindset.

SPEAKER_01:

Business owner mindset, exactly.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. This has been incredibly valuable. I know, I know my listeners are gonna probably want to connect with you to talk to you and schedule some time for some from strategy or get a copy of your book. Where's the best place for them to connect with you?

SPEAKER_01:

They can email me. I'm on my email daily basis, as many of us nowadays spend most of our time in emails, but email at councilcpas.com or just Google LinkedIn. I'm on my LinkedIn all the time. We're very active on LinkedIn. We share a lot of valuable information, some videos, some tips, so you can follow us and get some good tips. So LinkedIn, email, we have Instagram and all of that too. So if you Google CouncilCPAs, I'm sure it will pop up somewhere there.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. And we've got some links we're gonna share in the show notes as well, so people can reach out to you. This has been very interesting, and I absolutely see the point of hiring you and doing strategies so that we can be pro when it comes to our growth strategy.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's whether me or somebody else, it doesn't matter, honestly. I would love to work with the c with your audience, but make sure you're a pro. Lawyers are not amateurs, lawyers are pros, and keep it that way. Make sure you do it whether with me, with your CPA, X, Y, it doesn't matter who you do it with, but just do it.

SPEAKER_02:

I love it. Pro planning. Roadmap for opportunities.

SPEAKER_01:

Got it.

SPEAKER_02:

Emile, thank you so much for your time today.

SPEAKER_01:

My pleasure. Thank you so much, Brilliant.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to Lawmarketingzone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep bleeding with vision and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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