Leadership In Law Podcast

S03E118 Lawyer Well-Being & Networking with Emily Logan Stedman

• Marilyn Jenkins • Season 3 • Episode 118

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Ever catch yourself wishing for a harmless excuse to avoid your inbox? That quiet thought is more common than most lawyers admit, and it’s one of several subtle signs our guest, commercial litigator Emily Logan Stedman, learned to stop ignoring. We dive into the real cost of burnout, the routines that rebuilt her sense of control, and the culture shifts that help high achievers thrive without losing themselves.

Emily traces a path from clerkship to partnership that looks linear on paper but felt anything but. She breaks down the early cues she missed, skipping tennis, withdrawing from friends, and fantasizing about an “out”, and then shares the simple, repeatable practices that brought her back: daily bookends to open and close the workday, weekly review rituals to prevent Sunday scaries, and short mid-day resets that sharpen thinking rather than slow it down. We also unpack how over-communicating with your team and at home turns boundaries into trust, not friction.

Leadership shows up in the small things: stating you won’t take a laptop home, explaining when to text for true urgency, and treating colleagues like adults. Emily explains how flexible, trust-based cultures, remote, hybrid, or in-person, unlock better work and better lives. We also explore building a portable professional brand on LinkedIn: telling honest stories, offering solutions, and staying consistent to attract opportunities and a supportive community.

If you think you might be sliding toward burnout, Emily offers a three-step reset: give yourself permission to pause without missing deadlines, create daily rituals that close loops, and align expectations through clear communication.

Reach Emily here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilystedman/

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SPEAKER_00:

The Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you'll need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. I'm your host, Marilyn Jenkins. Please join me in welcoming my guest, Emily Fulvan Sedman, to the show today. Emily is a commercial litigation partner at Hosh Blackwell in Milwaukee. After starting her career clerking for a federal judge and practicing at top Big Ten firms, Emily experienced firsthand the toll the profession can take on male health. She's Wall and Leading Voice for Lawyer and Wellbeing, serving on the Wisconsin Task Force on Lawyer Well-being, and sharing candid insights through her podcast, The Grace Period, and an awkward post on LinkedIn. I'm excited to have you here. Emily, welcome.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. Tell us a bit about your journey.

SPEAKER_01:

So my journey starts in a suburb of Atlina, Georgia, where I was born. Both my parents are attorneys. My mom was actually in law school, and I get, I think I get my work ethic both from my mom and dad, but particularly from my mom. So she was a teacher by day and a law student at night when I was born. She actually had both me and my sister while she was in law school and really set the tone for both of us, knowing what it was like to have a very strong, successful woman in our life.

SPEAKER_02:

Love that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. And that probably laid the foundation for much of my journey, which I tell people on a resume, it looks very linear, right? Achieve in all of grade school, go to a good college, do Teach for America, go to law school, and end up at a big firm practicing law and making partner. But along the way, there were definitely highs and lows and a lot of doubts, and really marked by times where I intentionally caused to say, what is it that I want versus what my parents want and what other people want from me? And I think to bring it back to leadership, I think most of the leadership opportunities I've had along my journey have been because I've either asked that question or a friend or colleague has approached me and said, you should go for this. And that goes all the way back to being president of my sorority to being editor-in-chief of the law journal, things I may not have considered had others not encouraged me to go for them.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. Now I know in a lot of businesses people will hire like a business coach, but in law, it's very much leaned into that the partners or the further up, higher up, not old, not necessarily older attorneys are mentors. Have you experienced that through your journey?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I will say I do have an outside business development coach. I've had I've worked with her for about a year and a half. So I am a big advocate for coaching, and my firm has offered some coaching as well, which I think is tremendous. Mentoring has played a huge role in my legal career. I think back to when I moved to Milwaukee. I moved here from Mississippi. I'd never been to Wisconsin. Within the first month of my clerkship, my judge sat me down and said, You're not from here. You need to get out, you need to meet people, you need to network. And her guidance and example on that is why I stayed in Milwaukee and why I ultimately got a job in Milwaukee after my clerkship. Also, during clerking, when my judge was nominated to move up to the United States District Court by President Obama, we got to hire a second law clerk. And he came from private practice, from big law civil litigation. So I was able to ask him, like, I have some hesitancy about joining a big firm. What was it really like? Is it worth it? And so to have his mentorship really guide me into that next phase. And then as an associate in two big firms here in Milwaukee, mentors have played a tremendous role in my career. I think of one individual who really isn't that much older than me, but was ahead of me in the career, who is still a dear friend from my first firm and really helped let me ask all the hard questions and played a key role. And then several people at my current firm who I was able to say, this is the kind of work I want to do. This is the kind of work I don't want to do. How do I stop doing the work I don't want to do? I got to ask some questions. I think I want to be a partner. Some things have happened that made me question that. Is it worth it? And all of that has played a tremendous role in my personal and professional development. And now it's the biggest reward of my career that I get to pay that forward and mentor those coming up after.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. And mentor is just someone that's a few steps ahead of you. And you can, yeah, I love that. And so you were able to fill out what you wanted to do. And being in the big firm, can you can direct and do the kind of stuff that you want to do as opposed to so veer into what you like, your expertise?

SPEAKER_01:

I think you can. I think I did not realize that I had as much choice over that in the beginning. That's one thing I try to teach associates now is that you have more choice and control over the work you do in the beginning. Sure, you need to say yes a lot and you need to fill your plate and hit your billable hour requirements. But at some point, you also need to stop and ask yourself, what is the work I'm doing? What is the work I like? What is the work I don't like? Who are the partners I like to work for? I did not do that in the beginning. I wish I had, I would have avoided some, I think, challenging times had I asked that much.

SPEAKER_02:

Good. I think that's great advice. That listen, ask questions. Absolutely. You've been really open about your experience about burnout and big low. What were the warning signs that you feel like you missed early on that would have helped you turn things around?

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. So the conclusion of my burnout was panic attacks. I was on a family vacation on a deep sea fishing trip. I was on a boat, small boat in the middle of the ocean. Had a full-blown panic attack, and my family had to cut their fishing trip short because of me and my panic attack. And I knew I was struggling, but I didn't, I don't think I realized how bad I was struggling. And the things I missed, I stopped hanging out with friends. I stopped going to those networking events that had been so crucial to me. I was, I'm an avid tennis player. And I think without noticing, I had stopped playing tennis. And that was something that eventually I said to my husband, I haven't played tennis in six months. And he said to me, Yeah, I think it's because you're not happy and you're not, you're struggling at work, and that's bleeding into everything else. Other signs I missed or dismissed as not being a big deal. One thing I like to talk about a lot is this experience where you're driving to work, you're in traffic, and you think, Oh, if I just got in a fender fender bender, like nothing too serious, but they had to send me to the hospital to get checked out. I'd have an excuse not to work today. I'd have an excuse not to check my email. And every time I tell that story, I see the light bulbs go off in people's faces. I think that is a sign you are in burnout. It's a sign that you need to start thinking about recovering from burnout and you're past the prevention stage.

SPEAKER_02:

I agree. And I think eye-opening is noticing that you stop doing things you you enjoy doing and withdraw, that's huge. And it took you six months to realize you weren't playing tennis.

SPEAKER_01:

Six months. It was when you get in the motions of work and work feels demanding. I tell everyone when you're not happy at work and you're a high achiever, that's part of your identity. So when you start to feel discontent or struggling with that part of your identity, the professional side, it bleeds into every aspect of your life.

SPEAKER_02:

True. And most attorneys are high achievers. That's the point, right? Absolutely. So how did you what was your first step that you went through? Obviously, finally realization. Okay. And now what did you do to start to recover and change how you approached work?

SPEAKER_01:

So I at around the same time or you know, within a year of this really unfolding, I did change firms. I don't, you don't have to do that, right? Not required. I am someone who tends to look for a new change and a fresh start. And for me, that change was an opportunity to take everything I had learned from my first firm, the good and the bad, and apply it and do it differently.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And I told myself, if I change firms, and I should say, I was thinking about leaving the law altogether. I thought I wasn't cutting it as an attorney, that this wasn't right for me. Maybe I need a whole new career.

SPEAKER_02:

So you lost the joy altogether.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And it was my husband who said, I actually think you're good at this. Maybe you change environments and just make sure. And I said to myself, when I go to my new firm, I'm gonna be fully myself. I'm gonna be authentic to who I am. I'm gonna ask those questions and do those things to make sure I'm doing the work that aligns with me and my goals. And if what whatever firm I end up at, if that doesn't work, I will leave. And I just gave myself that permission. And at this was all around the same time I started being vocal and talking openly about attorney mental health and well-being. And I just set decided that is going to be an important part of who I am and what I do going forward. And I'm I'm if I end up anywhere, they have to be supportive. And I've been extremely fortunate that Hush Blackwell has been almost miraculously supportive of not just me, but particularly those mental health and well-being efforts.

SPEAKER_02:

I I love that. So just being authentic to yourself, not just taking the status quo and recognizing, and did you start playing tennis again?

SPEAKER_01:

I did. I did.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice. Nice. For those still deep in the real grind of firm life, what practical steps would you say to protect their mental well-being without feeling like they're falling behind? What steps would you say suggest they take?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. A lot of this is tied to our sense of autonomy. So many of us feel like we have no control over our day. We're either at the back and call of clients, partners, senior associates, our families, the courts, you name it. So the first step, I think, is to look for small ways where you can exercise some control. And that might be saying, I'm gonna work out at XYZ time and sticking to that and making that it almost feels rebellious to work out in the middle of the day. It does. But you're right, taking whatever that moment is and realizing I'm not non-responsive, I'm not irresponsible when I step away for an hour and rewiring your brain to realize that you have more control. Other ways, I like to do rituals or routines. And Cal Newport talks about this in his book, Deep Work. I start and end my workday basically the same identical way every day. I do the same things to open my workday. I triage my inbox, I update my to-do list, I check in on my billable hour and my time entry, and then I start my day. At the end of the day, I triage my inbox, create tomorrow's to-do list, enter my time for the day. And both of those things help me be more present at work. They separate me from in the morning, they separate me from home. And in the evening, it turns off work, right? And allows me to be present in the evening. It also helps my brain know, particularly at the end of the day, I know what to expect tomorrow. And I know right now, before I leave, if I need to be checking my email tonight. Like I understand where I am in my matters on whether I can unplug or I need to be on tonight. And that helps you again build that sense of control.

SPEAKER_02:

And I think one of the things you're playing on that is what I try to do is weekly planning. I'm really bad at it. The thing is you want to do a review and a plan so that you have, otherwise, you're you're bound by your calendar and you're just controlled by it. So I love the idea that you start your day with intention, what you need to do, you end it with intention. So you've got good bookends to your day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Weekly planning is huge. And I actually, my personal podcast, The Grace Period, is the tiniest of tiny podcasts. All episodes are less than 15 minutes. This week's episode was about my weekly review ritual. Sometimes I do it on Friday, sometimes Saturday, sometimes Sunday, but it helps me avoid the Sunday scaries because I've looked ahead and I know what to expect. And I know I've thought through everything that I need to do for the upcoming week. And I've like Outlook has these focus blocks that will just automatically populate. I've reviewed those. So I know where I've blocked off time to do deep work. If they put them somewhere where it doesn't work, I remove them. So I've looked ahead so that I'm not afraid of the unknown and spending time ruminating on Sunday and blaming myself for not working. And sometimes that's six minutes, sometimes it's an hour. But that weekly review, so you know what to expect, is a huge help.

SPEAKER_02:

And so you're making a point of having some family time, downtime, off time, whatever on the weekends. It's like you've created a rhythm of life that gives you value in both positions.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I think another element of that is whoever's in your life, personally or professionally, is over-communicating. So I'm constantly telling my husband when I plan to work late, when I need to be up. I prefer to work very early in the morning rather than late at night. So when I'm gonna be up and out in the morning and can't help with the dogs, or I can't do X, Y, Z this weekend because I need to go in the office. And over-communicating that to people also puts you in control and helps you voice it so that you don't feel guilty when you're skipping family brunch to go to work because you've told people what to expect. But you also develop this rhythm that you mentioned so that you're not doing that all the time. And so those people you're communicating with know that if you're doing that, it must be serious and legitimate.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm serious. Also, he's probably over-communicating with you if he feels like you're starting again.

SPEAKER_01:

We've had to we've had to work on that, yes, but yes, now we are also in that rhythm of communication where he gets a sense of when I'm, you know, maybe like last night, perfect example. I came home, I was very distracted. I'm in some very intense trial prep right now. I was on my phone, teamsing, teams messaging my team. He was like, is everything okay? He could sense. I was like, it's totally fine. It's just I need to be on with work a little more tonight than I would norm normally try.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. So he saw you go into that, helped you come out of that, and now he's keeping an even keel. And the rhythm's amazing. So you're doing something for yourself outside of work every day and on the weekends.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I think that is the number one thing, no matter how small it is. And when I first started doing that, I would literally, so I've never been a big reader. And in 2018 or 19, I was like, I really just want to start reading for fun. It's a good way for me in particular to get off my phone and read and have a book in my hand rather than my phone. And I literally would set a timer for 10 minutes. Okay. And that would be the one thing I did for myself that day was reading for fun for 10 minutes. Or I'd say just read eight pages. But I think particularly starting and ending your day with one thing that is just for you and has nothing to do with work is extremely important and makes a huge difference, even if it's just five or ten minutes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, walking outside, touching grass is take a walk around the block. It doesn't mean you have to walk for an hour or get 10,000 steps, but just step away, breathe, and get out of your phone.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And I think then once you know those things that are impactful, even in those short spurts, you can do that in the middle of the day too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. Lunch walks are an amazing way of breaking up your day and also resetting your mind, especially if you're stuck on something.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. That reset is so important. Your brain keeps processing it things behind the scenes. So often if I'm writing a brief or in the thick of it with a research or deposition outline, I'll take a break and go grab a cup of coffee just to get that reset.

SPEAKER_02:

And you tend to be better when you come back. Because now you it's best if you can we years ago, I was coding and we couldn't find the mistake in the code and go do something, come back. You're like, oh, that's it.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. Everyone jokes that they have their best thoughts in the shower. And it's yeah, because you can't be obsessing over whatever the issue is, but your brain is still processing.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. I love that. And in so thinking about culture that supports mental health, what would what could the role of firm leaders play in that? That it instead of something that's silently burning people out, how can they help build a culture of well-being?

SPEAKER_01:

That's such a good question. I think firm leaders, and I include really anyone in that title. So I think senior associates are firm leaders, junior and equity partners are non-equity partners, and equity partners are can be leaders. You don't need a title of firm chair or executive board member to be a firm leader. You need to model this behavior. And I think that is where particularly elder millennials, so my age, around 40, are really strong. We are modeling these changes for the associates and younger attorneys coming up behind us. So I voice things to my team like, I'm not taking my laptop home today because I need to take a break, but you can reach me by here's my cell phone number if something's important, right? So it's not being unavailable, but it's modeling a recognition that I need to take a break while also saying, use your judgment. And if it's emergency, here's how to contact me. I think one thing my firm does really well is treating people like an adult. And that is exemplified by my firm's process and programming around remote and hybrid work. They fully embraced it, and it's really up to the individual and their team and potentially where you are in your career. About being remote, being hybrid, or being in-person. And I'm an in-person employee. I love having an office. But what that culture tells me is Emily, your parents are aging. They live in Atlanta. You live a thousand miles away. Don't hesitate to go home and work remotely. That is better for you. And that kind of empowering people to make those kind of choices, I think really models that you're an adult. It is important that you do good work. It's important that you work hard. But if you're doing those things, we're not going to micromanage you. And I think that goes a long way for building a culture of well-being. And that can be modeled on a team of two people, or it can be modeled by the chair of a firm.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. Yeah, that's true. Being supportive, we are adults. And if you can be a responsible adult and still get your work done, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. And that's the key, right? Like you have to build a reputation of trust and responsiveness and responsibility to be able to take advantage of some of these perks or options and choices. But if you do that, and most people can and want to and will, that's when you can start, I call it banking on that credit to do things like working out in the middle of the day, taking your tennis lesson for me at 9:30 instead of 7:30 in the morning and things like that.

SPEAKER_02:

Wow, I love that. So let's jump over to your LinkedIns. You built a strong professional brand on LinkedIn. And this is obviously part of your networking thing that you were doing. How has that visibility helped you personally and professionally at this point?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think personally it gave me a creative outlet and a part of my professional identity that's wholly mine. It's not my firm's identity. No matter where I go in the future, if I go somewhere, I love my firm. I'm not planning to leave, but it's mine and it comes with me. And there's some freedom in that. It also a lot of people become attorneys because we love to write. And it allows me to scratch that itch in a way that's not client or billable or lawyerly writing. And I actually think my professional writing has improved because I'm writing every day for a plain English, more casual audience. It has also connected me with attorneys and like-minded professionals nationwide. And it has been a tremendously supportive and encouraging network to build and community to build. It has brought me many opportunities to appear on podcasts, speaking engagements, panel opportunities to whole firms. I'll be speaking at the NOUT, the National Association of Law Placement, I believe, next year on a panel and really expand my footprint. And for a long time, I hesitated to embrace this sort of moniker. But for a lot of people, I am the face of law your well-being for big law. And I can only say that because of the content I created and the network and community I built on Leaf.

SPEAKER_02:

That's fantastic. I love the conversations that happen on LinkedIn. It's so interesting and seeing everybody's journey and where they are. I agree. For people who, for a lot of people who want to start on LinkedIn and grow their network and they feel uncomfortable posting, what one simple authentic way to start would you suggest?

SPEAKER_01:

Tell your story. You hear that a lot, but you need to be you and be authentically you. And if you do that, there's an audience who will develop and be interested in what you have to say, no matter how small. So for me, I began not with stories. I would talk about the work we were doing on the Wisconsin task force for lol your well-being. That naturally led itself to the stories I had about being an associate at a big firm and what it was really like. And I just shared openly and honestly about that, which no one else was doing on social media or in a professional way. I wasn't just complaining. I wasn't bashing my former or current employers. I was just saying, here's what I experienced and here's how I overcame it, or here's how you can avoid experiencing what I experienced. And if you do that consistently and authentically, people will follow. And it does feel cringy and uncomfortable in the beginning. And you will either have in your mind or someone to your face will say, lawyers shouldn't be doing that. But they are. And not enough, I think, private general private practice attorneys are doing it.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I agree. And that's when it comes to any social media, it's like they they're shying away. And is social media is not an opinion piece that you follow with the court, it's a conversation. And it can be educational, it can help you professionally as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I like LinkedIn because there are guardrails, right? 99, maybe 95% of the time, it's a positive, supportive place. It doesn't have the trolls and negativity that some of the other social media platforms can have. And for me, it helped me really define my brand. I'm an attorney, I'm a commercial litigator, I advocate for well-being, and I talk about real life and big law. And I can stick to that lane and stay laser focused on that. And it has been a tremendously positive and rewarding thing for me.

SPEAKER_02:

Excellent. Yeah, I agree. I think LinkedIn is definitely the platform for professionals. And it's a good, again, another good outlet. You're building a personal brand. So that's another thing you're doing for you. So just to do a little wrap-up, now anybody that's feeling like they think they might be burnt out, and you've kind of described exactly what you should look for. Are you still enjoying things that you used to enjoy or are you not? What would be just like a real quick one, two, three? If you see it, do it, how would you say to start digging out of that hole?

SPEAKER_01:

Give yourself permission to walk away. Of course. Tidy up on your to-do list, don't miss deadlines, don't leave people hanging, but start developing a practice where you know when things can wait. And when things can wait, walk away. It might be five minutes to take a deep breath to get some sunshine outside. It might be 24 hours, depending on your schedule and what you have going on. But developing for me, developing that sense of I can pause. Yes, there's always more work to do, but it doesn't have to be done right now. That is what helped me start developing a rhythm of being able to take steps away, either just for the night and sleep well, or for 24 hours. I'm not a big vacationer. I prefer to take a half day or a full day here and there, but it can also help you figure out how to take longer break too.

SPEAKER_02:

I love that. I love that. Great advice. I absolutely agree. Just because even those of us that are entrepreneurs, we have to decide. It's especially if it can wait. Not everything, there's always going to be something to do. We're never going to finish our to-do list. It's just the nature of the game. But prioritizing, I love that. That is, this has been great, great advice, Emily. I know our listeners are probably going to want to reach out to you or connect with you or even listen to your show. Where's the best place for them to reach you?

SPEAKER_01:

LinkedIn for sure, Emily Logan Sudman. If you Google me, Emily Logan Sudman, my firm bio will pop up, has my email and work phone number as well. Find me wherever. I'm always happy to chat.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here today. This has been a great episode. And I hope everyone's got some good shit ideas and tips to be able to move forward and start enjoying their life again. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for joining me today for this episode. As we wrap up, I'd love for you to do two things. First, subscribe to this podcast so you don't miss an episode. And if you find value here, I'd love it if you would rate it and review it. That really does make a difference in helping other people to discover this podcast. Second, you can connect with me on LinkedIn to keep up with what I'm currently learning and thinking about. And if you're ready to take the next step with a digital strategist to help you grow your law firm, I'd be honored to help you. Just go to LawmarketingZone.com to book a call with me. Stay tuned for our next episode next week. Until then, as always, thanks for listening to Leadership in Law Podcast, and be sure to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts so you don't miss the next episode.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the standard test. Head over to our website at lawmarketingstolk.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time. Keep playing with Vidal and keep growing your firm.

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Marilyn Jenkins

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