S04E153 Becoming a Biz Dev Rainmaker with David H. Freeman

Rainmaking doesn’t fail in law firms because lawyers are lazy or “not salespeople.” It fails because most firms treat business development like an event instead of a system. We talk with David Freeman, a National Law Journal Hall of Fame coach and bestselling author, about how to turn client development into an everyday habit that survives the pressure of billable hours and the chaos of real life.

David shares why the future of law firm growth depends on relationship skills that AI can’t replace: building trust, staying visible, and nurturing networks over time. We dig into what’s broken with the classic retreat model, how cross-messaging kills momentum, and why tracking the right behaviors matters more than waiting for annual numbers. You’ll hear how cohort-based learning creates accountability and even strengthens internal trust, which unlocks cross-selling and a true culture of business development.

We also get practical about execution: carving out protected calendar time, using “watchers” and buddy systems, habit stacking, and creating simple outreach that keeps you top of mind with high-value contacts. David explains how automation and segmentation can help when the message is genuinely useful, plus smart tactics like leveraging associations to get in front of the right audience quickly. If you want a bigger book of business without relying on motivation, this gives you a clear framework to build the machine behind the results. Subscribe, share with a colleague who needs a better BD system, and leave a review so more law firm owners can find the show.

Reach David here:
https://www.lawyerbookbuilder.com
https://www.bdbuddy.ai
https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidfreemanconsulting

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the Leadership Law Podcast with the most world for the law, it's optimal insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your e-book. Your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. We talk to one of the critical topics that matter most to you from the most of growth to building a thriving team, with the successful firm leaders, and industry experts, the proof and properties and hard one with the open whether you're a student leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner. The Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Turning business development into an everyday habit instead of a periodic initiative. David was the number one rated coach in the U.S. for several years. He is in the National Law Journal Hall of Fame. He is a two-time bestselling author and has worked with over 10,000 lawyers and leaders at hundreds of firms worldwide. With the development of the Lawyer Book Builder Online Training and Accountability Program and the BD Buddy Reminder and Triving System, he helps law firms turn more of their lawyers into solid rainmakers. I'm excited to have you here. David, welcome.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Thank you so much. It's really nice to be able to get some time to meet you, to talk to you, and to share some of what we've been developing.

David’s Shift From Practice

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Thank you. I'm so excited about it. Tell us a little bit about your leadership journey.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

The journey. I guess we don't have to go all the way back, but I guess going back to law school and practice for a little bit. And I found that where my passion was more in training, coaching, helping lawyers grow than actually practicing the law myself. So about 30 plus years ago, I moved into this phase where I'm doing the business development training and coaching for lawyers. And as you mentioned, it's 10,000 plus lawyers later. I've worked with about 260 firms. And it's just fascinating to work with really bright, intelligent people that haven't spent time focusing on this part of their development. What does it take to be a rainmaker? Because at the end of the day, practicing law, a lot of people do that. The thing that I think is going to differentiate, even especially as we move forward into more of an AI future world, is how good are you going to be at developing new relationships, nurturing those relationships, building trust? And that's all rainmaking skills. So that's what I've spent my working hours focusing on.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

And when law school doesn't teach you sales, is it all those types of things?

Why Rainmaking Matters In AI

SPEAKER_01 3:25

They're doing it a little bit more now, but certainly not to the level that I think is needed. And certainly back in the day when I was practicing, there was nothing around that.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

What's the problem with legacy law or training approaches, especially when they're trying to scale a firm?

Retreat Training Fails Without Follow-Up

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah. I think one of the problems is the model of okay, we have a retreat coming up. What are we going to do during the retreat? Let's provide some training. Okay, great. And we've got all of our lawyers here. So let's pack as much training as we can into this one day. Theoretically and logically, so to speak, that might make sense. But from a reality practical point of view, if you give them a lot of information at one time, they're not going to hold on to it. And it so the game really is to provide training in bite-sized pieces so that a lawyer could absorb it. They can go out there and practice it. They can come back and debrief on it, and then they can get their next bite of knowledge and go and do it. And so it's just we're packing things in, and then also the fact that there's not a lot of accountability and follow-up. So often again, there's a we have a retreat, or we're going to bring in a trainer, we're going to train them. And then, okay, lawyers, it's up to you to go process what you learned, create a plan, and then create systems so that you're going to follow up all the time to act on the plan. The vast majority of lawyers just don't do that. They're too busy focused on the billable hour. So there's maybe a surge of action for the first week or whatever afterward. And then things go settle back into the old groove.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

I think it's like we've all been to conferences where you get really motivated, right? But motivation is completely different than dedication because you always have back to life, right? Real life and distractions.

Measuring Behaviors Not Billable Hours

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

So for a firm that's already has business development training in place, how would they know it's not working as well as it should?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

I think that tangentially, some of the problem is tracking. And the tracking is usually annually, where there's having the performance review of the lawyer, how did you do? Yes, there's tracking with are you bringing in new matters and so on. But for business development, so much of this is what are you doing? Are you doing the right behaviors now that will lead to the revenue, that will lead to the billable hours? So when you're looking and measuring billable hours, that actually is a constraint because if the carrot is give me more billable hours, then we're not going to be motivating our lawyers to go out there and to be able to go and get work.

SPEAKER_02 5:58

True.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

So there's just such a dynamic that is crunching up against each other of what is our message. So we provide training, but then we basically send the message, but we need the billable hours every month. So it's giving them the permission and the freedom to be able to invest their time in building the practice. So I think there's some cross-messaging that's a problem. And then again, post-training, there's just not a system of let's refresh, let's remind. It's just like any skill attempted after law school to play professional tennis. So I know a thing or two about putting in way too many hours to practice some finite skill. But for lawyer business development, who gets the chance to actually over and over practice the skill of introducing themselves at a conference, of effectively cross-selling, of putting out materials to the world that will attract people. We don't practice these things. We don't refresh the skills, we don't debrief with each other to learn from each other. And so there's just a missing link of having a learning and action culture as compared to a I will give you information and now you have to figure it out culture.

Lawyer Book Builder And Cohorts

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah, I see. And so tell us about Law Your Book Builder. How, why did you develop it? What makes it different or unique?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Yeah. I think what's interesting, the genesis, the backstory, so to speak. The gift of COVID is that my coaching practice slowed down. I had some time. And having done this for three decades, I really want to capture all of what I've learned into one place rather than when I'm a coach, I'll give you the information. But otherwise it goes disappearing into the ether. So I created a course, has 10 modules to it. It covers pretty much the full range of what it takes to become a highly effective Rainmaker. And I put it into these modules. But the magic of this is that number one, people can watch it at their own time, but I recommend that firms form cohort groups. Okay. And this way, this group will be assigned to do the introduction and module number one for this month. And then we give them a workbook for homework and ways to be able to do this. So it can all be run internally. Then they come together for an hour at a cohort and they are asked, How did you do? You were given this assignment. Fred, how did you do with that? Jane, how did it go with you? And then they're debriefing with each other. They're learning from each other. They know they're accountable because they're going to be asked to report on it. And this dynamic of being able to have groups working together, we're checking many boxes at one time. Number one, we're providing individual skills to individual lawyers. Number two, we're trying to activate a culture of cross-connection. Because in any firm of size, there's cross-selling opportunities. But when you ask why is that not happening? I don't know if I just yesterday someone said, our lawyers don't trust each other, they don't want to share credit, they don't know what each other does. So this gets that part activated. So building the known trust factor, learning about each other's practices, having accountability, and then having a system so that it actually can be scalable. One of the things that I like to talk about is the idea of creating a culture of business development. Just about every firm I work with, they would like to have a culture where everybody is doing it. Well, you need to have common language. You need to have ways that everybody can talk to each other and they know what's going on and what's expected. And this provides that curriculum and framework that can be spread throughout, I will say, an entire firm because I basically built it if we're looking at mid-size firms and up for the mid-level associate on up. But that's a wide swath. And those are the people we're basically saying, hey, we're ready for you to go out there and bring in work and bring in more work. Here's a set of skills to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

I love the accountability in the group. So you're each, it's a big communication and just each other keeping each other accountable and growing. And it makes it, and that's something I think I agree with you to stick longer.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Well, and one of the things that I found as one of the nice benefits is that when the program ends, there's 10 modules, firms could do it in 10 months, they could consolidate whenever. But there are a number of firms where the group said, we want to continue to meet. We really like having this cadre of people that we could bounce ideas off of. And so even though the modules have ended, it was that trigger to get that kind of cultural action of cohesion together.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Love that.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

So there's not a lot of forums for this that are naturally developed inside firms. So this creates that place where people can come together and talk about unspoken parts of what it takes to become a great lawyer.

SPEAKER_02 10:48

Fabulous. Because I know in law it's very much a mentorship type thing, is typical, but not like this. This is completely different. You want to build rainmakers, build a firm.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Yeah. And mentorship, it's a wonderful thing to have. But sometimes your mentor may not really have the right skill set. Sometimes a mentor inherited their book of business, so they have no idea what it takes to go out there in the world. Or, oh, just say that sometimes we have some very senior lawyers who got work in a completely different way than the way we need to do it now. So they don't own the skills on how to do it. So bringing peers together with a structure, with a format really provides a foundation that is missing in many firms.

Trust And Cross-Selling Culture

SPEAKER_02 11:33

I love that. So you did lawyer book builder to help teach this process. So tell us about ED Buddy. And I know that it's a different program, but it plays hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Yeah, absolutely. So if you look at the chain, is basically the links are we have to get our lawyers to learn skills. We then have to have them act on these things and to do it regularly. So that piece that we've been talking about, action, consistency, that's missing in just about every firm. And so BD Bunny is basically designed to provide weekly reminders to targeted groups of lawyers. This week, you should do this. And at the end of the week, they have a way of checking in on whether they did those activities or not, and that populates data. Very simple action. So this is not a CRM where we're asking lawyers to click, put in your password, open up, enter data, who did you do, what date, what's on. It's simple. So let's say you've got a firm where you've got, let's say, an IP practice group, and they want to go break into a different industry. Okay. All right. So we could build a campaign, 26-week campaign, whatever length you want, on industry dominance. And then each week an email goes to that group that says, Hey, we would like you, David, today or this week to do this action. Could be write an article to post. It could be reach out to an industry group to join. It could be take a leadership position, whatever these are. We get a curated list of tasks that firms agree upon and they can create their own. And then once it's locked and loaded, then the lawyers will get their weekly reminder of what to do. And then on the Friday, they click, did you do it or didn't you? Or if it's a numerical thing, did you do one, two, or three? That's all they have to do. Lives in the email. Simplicity. But it creates real-time information for a firm to see how well are we actually doing going after this initiative.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

So basically for example, so basically you built the education system and then the systems itself to put it into play.

BD Buddy Weekly Action Reminders

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Yeah. The thing is so many things inside law firms and everywhere else are engineered. There's systems. Business development is an engineering problem. Law firms don't have a system, a structure, an organizational process to make it an ongoing situation. And so this is creating the mechanical element behind it, but doing it with a level of simplicity, enjoyment. We have gamification that's built in. So for the competitive nature of people, we've got that going on. It's just taking a systemic approach, but putting it in such a way that lawyers are going to actually want to do it and that it's a light touch for them.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

Okay. So does BD Buddy help control that play the role of accountability in actually tuning in the training?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Absolutely. Because what happens is that it could be the training is finished, and then you have a 26 or whatever week campaign on actions to follow up to keep the training alive. And so let's say I'm the lawyer receiving the email. On Monday, I get an email that says, David, we would like you to reach out to two new potential clients this week. Okay. On Friday, David, list click on the number of potential clients you reached out to. I'll click on zero, one, two, whatever. That's all I have to do. But then that gets reported on so that the firm behind the scenes can see have I weekly been engaging in doing the actions. Okay. And that also the game of if I'm being watched, I'm going to change my behavior. True. So if I know the firm is watching, I'm probably going to do it. So it provides data for the firm at whatever point that they're going to be doing lawyer evaluations to say, look, 85% of the time you fulfilled the obligation. Or 20% of the time, hey, what's wrong with you? Or 120%, hey, congratulations. That's fabulous. And then the firm has that data. And then again, I have that knowing that I'm being watched, I'm probably going to go and want to, because lawyers are so competitive. They're going to want to meet, if not exceed, the expectation. So we have to put, we have to be the wizards behind the curtain to put the right carrots in front of people to get them to move and to do the things we want. And that's why BD Buddy was created.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

It makes a lot of sense. So thinking about the attorneys that need that should be using the book builder, but what are the some of the key skills lawyers should learn and implement when it comes to book building?

Stay Top Of Mind With Value

SPEAKER_01 16:10

Yeah. First off, it's actually creating the right habits. That's one of the beginning modules in the program, which is it's it'd be great if we teach them all these skills, but if they don't have habits to implement, it's a waste of time. So we ask them to take a look at how can you put together systems that will guarantee that you will implement. It's a different standard than just build a system. So it could be pick a day of the week where you should carve out time. Now let's pick the time of that day. Okay. And we'll get them to draw down. Then I've got the thing that I call the watchers. Let's put some watchers in place. So maybe it's your practice assistant, maybe it's somebody on the marketing team, maybe it's another lawyer in the firm and you do a buddy system together. But people generally do better when there's somebody else involved that's watching over them or doing it with them. So it's just laying these things that I also from the book Atomic Habits. There's a concept called habit stacking. Right. So if you already have a habit, can you stack a piece of business development on top of that habit? So I always provide as many possible options for people because you know they're going to go, no, that's not for me. No, that's not for me. Oh, but that one can work. So building the right habits is critical for anything. Building a strong network. I remember my college roommate was working at a very large New York firm, and through no fault of his own, his largest client left. 72% of his book at business walked out in one day. So I said, So talk to me about your network. How can you backfill this? He goes, I have no network. I have not nurtured anything. I was just sitting on this. The five people I hang out with will never give me any work. And so I have to go and work on my network. So all things equal, I ask lawyers to take a look at if you've got a small network compared to somebody in your same practice who has a large network, who's going to have the bigger book of business? And so we look at ways of measuring things, not at dollars, not hours, but these other what I call progress measures. So the size of your book of business. The way that you could stay top of mind. Okay. And this goes into one of the earliest things I talk about is the Rainmaker's mindset. Because what I often see is a lawyer will say, I reached out to this client, I heard nothing. I reached out again, I heard nothing. They don't want to hear from me. Now that's when I hit the button. No, that doesn't necessarily mean that. It just means that they didn't respond. The Rainmaker mindset is that they're just too busy. And if they're going to tell me to stop, they'll tell me. But otherwise, it's just keep sending me things because someday it just might be the right time. And I share personal examples. There's one firm I worked with them 21 years ago. Okay. And last year they came back again and said, okay, we're ready for you again. Wow. And every three to four months, I would send something out personally. They were also on my tips list because I send out weekly tips so that weekly they kept remembering David Freeman equals business development. David Freeman equals business development. Our lawyers don't necessarily have these mechanisms in place to remind people they're out there. I say that the a lawyer will do a presentation for a group, and then they'll sit back and hope that's going to be enough. But the echo fades. So lawyers have to keep the noise going in good ways so that it'll stay, because it's the job of the lawyer to stay in the mind of the prospect. It's not the job of the prospect to remember the lawyer. True.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

It's like having a plumber, right? If you needed a plumber two years ago, do you call that plumber again or you Google a plumber, right? So it's you have to stay top of mind. Do you suggest any automations? And the reason I ask this is I've got automations to keep tabs of and keep in touch and keep front of mine. I had a client come in that we actually had a sales call in 2021. And in 2025, like then now's the time. And it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Yeah, personally, and then what I coach lawyers to do is to take your personal lists and then carve them into categories. And then when you have messages like I have my weekly tips, it doesn't go out to all 9,000 people I have in the list, most of them, but some it doesn't apply to. So I can have control over my messages to my different audiences. But I load up these tips, they're loaded up in advance, and then automatically they're going out. So automations like that, every firm has the ability to do that, whether it's done through a firm CRM, personal systems. There's always ways that this could be done. But there's deeper things around that. Make sure your message is valuable, it's useful, it's just not pablum like everybody else is sending out. But going back to the higher level order of question, staying top of mind is critical. So if I'm going to boil it down, it's how can you get known by high value people and how can you make it so you're never forgotten by those high value people? And then everything underneath that becomes tactics.

SPEAKER_02 22:00

That's makes a lot of sense. We all want our ideal client and we want our ideal client thinking about us, especially when they need us.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

And so it's up to the lawyer to determine what is this audience? Who do I need to be in front of? Then create a plan to be able to be seen by them. I love associations because associations have done all the hard work of collecting people for you. Sure. And so you can go to the association and say, hey, I would love to offer to do a presentation for your group. I a couple of ideas. Another one is I'd be happy to sponsor doing a QA with your membership. What a question. Because then the association will say, sure, who do you want to reach out to? And then you, the lawyer, calls the or reaches out to the prospective clients saying, Hey, on behalf of the ABC Association, we'd like to feature you on our weekly or monthly blah blah. So it gets the lawyer to be seen by the whole association as the host, targeted reach out to individuals. It's just such a winning win. But this is where the subtlety of the hundreds and hundreds of tactics come in that are in the book builder program and so on, because one lawyer might say, Wow, that's perfect for me. Another might say, There's no way I could do that. It's the tools to be able to get seen both, I call it on a macro basis. How can you use automation, as you're saying, to hit your full database? But then there's your A list. And it might be 25, 30 people. How can you build a system to be able to remind yourself to reach out to these highly important people because they're the ones that have proven to you or could in the future be tremendous sources of work?

Associations And Targeted Outreach

SPEAKER_02 23:47

And do you encourage like trying not to have one client that's more than 10% of your book of business? Is that or is that like a firm-by-firm basis? Really depends.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It's a really interesting problem to have, right? So if you've got a firm that's a client that's 50%, I wouldn't turn and say, hey, I'm going to cut you down. But yes, but I would say to my lawyers, let's go and go find the next one. And let's go try to find the next one. Let's not just sit back here. And of course, that gets to be the classic constraint. Like one guy I talked to yesterday, and he said, I'm basically sleeping two hours a night right now. And I find it really hard to say no. And so we have to work through and talk through that. So sometimes there's firm constraints on this. My sort of maybe it's facetious or not is go out there and go get work and start bursting at the seams and then go to leadership and say, look at this, we need more bodies. Because most firms do not want to hire in anticipation of possible work. They don't want the overhead. But once the squeaking of the wheel gets pretty loud, then they're going to take the recruiting efforts more seriously and go find out.

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Yeah, and I think the rule of thumb is when you get to 80% capacity, that gives you 20% to be able to train before you're over capacity.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yep, absolutely. And yeah, you've just got to come up with these different models, whatever works for the firm, size of the firm makes a difference in this. But yeah, let that be the worst problem you have is that you've got a gigantic client. But again, you don't want to be like my college roommate that for whatever reason a new GC comes in, says, Hey, I just came from another firm, I'm going to give it to my other firm.

SPEAKER_02 25:29

So this these sound like really amazing programs to get people on track and then growing their business. What are some of the most common excuses or barriers that attorneys give to not get involved?

Client Concentration And Capacity

SPEAKER_01 25:41

Yeah. One is I'm too busy. And I am usually, yes, I get that. Congratulations. That's fabulous. But let's talk about your future. What do you want your future practice to look like? And we go through a future exercise, and then we start to dissect the week. Can you find 15 to 20 minutes anywhere in your schedule? Yeah, of course I can find 15 or 20 minutes. Okay, let's start with that. And let's figure out what you're going to fill the 15 or 20 minutes with. So there's some knee-jerk statements that have a lot of validity, but they're not fully true. Yes, I'm very busy, but you're not fully busy. And what you're doing today may not be the thing that fills you up tomorrow. You're always going to have to keep the bucket dripping on the top because there's usually leaks at the bottom. Another one is that a typical one of, oh, the client's too busy to want to hear from me.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

Yeah, you feel like you're interrupting. I get that.

SPEAKER_01 26:40

But the reality in the Rainmaker's mindset is, okay, if you have something that's not important to them, yes, they're too busy for it. But if you can come up with something that's really in their core wheelhouse of things that they are busy about, and you could find a way to talk about it, address it, teach, solve, they're going to want to hear from you. Of course. So they're too busy for stupidity, for banal stuff. They're not too busy for value. So that's a bit of a lawyers have to take some time. I call this the 30-second rule. And in front of that, with your question, I have another phrase where I say lawyers often tie themselves up in knots, N-O-S. All the reasons to not do things. So I ask them to be a little self-aware if you hear that voice going, oh, I can't because stop. Take 30 seconds and ask a different question. How could I do X? How could I reach out? And that opens up this different door instead of immediately knee-jerking again and just like that's this, therefore, no. Right. Don't do that. Raymakers are always looking for how instead of why not.

Busy Excuses And The 30-Second Rule

SPEAKER_02 27:44

I love that. That makes a lot of sense. Because I know that when you start noticing within your own day what things you're doing and you realize that those are procrastination, you're not actually doing something that needs to be done right now. You're avoiding something. And we don't realize that in a lot of instances. So I I love that the asking yourself, how can I do this? as opposed to I can't. So any lawyer listening today that wanted to start building a stronger book of business immediately, what is the one habit that you say they should implement this week?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

I would say that putting something in your calendar in a place that will not disappear because a client call comes in or whatever, find the least slippage spot on your calendar and try to schedule at least 30 minutes, if not an hour. Dedicate it to client development activities. That in itself, because most lawyers, like a fellow I was coaching this morning, he said, I have a ton of ideas. I know what I should be doing, but I don't have a system set up where I'm actually acting on it. Most lawyers I talk to, they've got some ideas of things they should do. So if you could A, take it and carve out space so that the phone's not going to ring, you turn off your email, you just and then number two, take an idea and try to break it into the smallest possible steps. Step one, step two, because some things feel really big. I should create a podcast that I want to get 50,000 listeners. You got to start with what's the idea? And then who's the market? And as simple as it sounds, carving out that time. The other thing, if I'd have a second one, is sweep through your contact list and put it into some kind of an organized system so that people do not slip off your calendar.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Yeah.

One Weekly Habit To Start

SPEAKER_01 29:40

I've got this sort of Excel sprintsheet I created, and I lovingly call it the memory matrix. Okay. Because here's a common example. I'm a tax lawyer, and a piece of news comes in, and I go, Oh, that would be great. Let me send that out to Freds, maybe a CPA, and Fred's on my mind because I talked to Fred yesterday. Maybe I know 50 CPAs, but Fred's the one who just happened to come to mind. If I already have that list, if it's electronic and automated, and I could put it in, send it to all of them. But lawyers generally drop the ball because most leads are forgotten. They don't have a system for keeping all their important people in front of them or have them clustered and connected into a database. So for the 8,000, 9,000 emails I have, if I walk down the street and walk past, let's say it's 9,000, if I walk past 8,800 of them, 89, I wouldn't even know who they were.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

But these are people who came on a podcast, they were in a seminar, they, whatever, I collected these names over time. So collecting names and doing something with those names, 30 second we'll figure out how. That those two things I think would be creating magic because most lawyers have, depending on the size of your practice, but millions and millions of dollars of potential revenue that exist in their orbit, but they're just not grabbing those things to bring them in to be able to do something with them.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

I agree. Pause for a second, please.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

I got an ambulance going by.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

I hear you. There we go. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Okay. All right. This absolutely great information, David. This is amazing. With the Lawyer Book Builder and anybody listening, if you're looking to grow your book or business, definitely get involved with the lawyer book builder. And I love the BD Buddy system that helps you make that work. We all want a bigger business. We all want more revenue. And if we can help more people get that to get there, that's an amazing way to do it. David, I know our listeners may want to connect with you and reach out to you. Where would be the best place to do that?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Probably the best thing to do would be you could go to the lawyerbookbuilder.com website or David at lawyerbookbuilder.com. Those are probably the easiest ways. Happy to chat with anybody about what's going on with your practice. So feel free to reach out.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Fantastic. These have been great tips and a lot of great information. I really appreciate your time. And those notes are going to be in the show notes. So definitely reach out to David. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Excellent. Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity to share the stuff.

Contact Systems And The Memory Matrix

SPEAKER_02 32:31

That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about something that could be a real game changer for your firm. If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but your marketing still isn't producing the caseload you know you deserve. That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to solve. My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do cookie cutter. We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your goals. More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more profit. Head over to LawmarketingZone.com/slash book a call and book your free case growth session today. The link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode.

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same. Head over to our website at lawmarketingtheme.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to play on the latest episode. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with Google and keep growing your firm.