S04E156 From Reactive to Proactive Business Owner with Chris Papin

Your calendar isn't the problem, your priorities are. In this episode, JD/CPA Chris Papin shares practical strategies for law firm owners to take control of their time, align their schedules with business goals, and stop getting stuck in "technician mode."

We discuss why time blocking fails without clear objectives, how reactive habits like constantly checking email hurt productivity, and the importance of focusing on the right opportunities. Chris also explains the value of combining legal and financial planning when making decisions about taxes, contracts, entity formation, and risk management. 

Finally, we explore how client experience and thoughtful onboarding can drive better reviews, stronger relationships, and long-term growth, plus a simple 30-minute focus exercise you can start using immediately. 

Reach Chris here:
https://www.papinspeaks.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispapin/
BLABO on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Jll3VIXtTFOR0DwGhQKJb
BLABO on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blabo-behave-like-a-business-owner/id1831290137/
https://www.instagram.com/papinspeaks/

Ready to level up your law firm marketing? Book a FREE Discovery Call with Marilyn Here: https://lawmarketingzone.com/bookacall

Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins 
Powered by Law Marketing Zone®
https://lawmarketingzone.com
A full-service Digital Marketing Agency helping clients increase Leads, Cases, and Profit by getting their digital marketing right.

Subscribe on your favorite Podcast listening platform!

Like, Share, and Review us!

#leadershipinlawpodcast #leadershipinlaw #lawmarketingzone #marilynjenkins

Transcript

Welcome And Show Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the Leadership and Law Podcast with host Maryland for the naughty stuff with accessible insights and inspiring stories delivered straight to your e-books, your ultimate podcast for navigating the ever-changing world of law firm ownership. In each episode, we dive deep into the critical topics that matter most to you from unlocking explosive growth to building a thriving team, we connect you with successful firm leaders and industry experts who further proven strategies and hard law wisdom. So whether you're a teasing leader or just starting your journey as a law firm owner, the Leadership in Law Podcast is here to equip you with the knowledge and tools you need to build a successful and fulfilling legal practice.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

With over 20 years of experience in a background as a CPA, he provides a rare combination of legal and financial guidance for business owners. He focuses on estate

Meet Chris Papin JD CPA

SPEAKER_02 1:25

planning, business formation, contracts, and strategic legal planning for entrepreneurs and small businesses. Chris is also the author of 168 Hours, a startup business guide that respects your time, and the host of Blackboat Podcast, where he helps owners move from reactive compliance to proactive, growth-focused planning. I'm excited to have you here, Chris. Welcome.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Thanks for having me. I appreciate all the kind words in the intro.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Absolutely. Tell us a bit about your leadership journey.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, kind of lots of different directions. I grew up a person of or a child of entrepreneurs. Mom and dad both had small businesses. We lived kind of a business succession plan when my dad passed. My brother took over his business. Fast forward, CPA, lawyer, working with small businesses and small business owners. It's just the space that you're in. And I've got a background in athletics. I've coached soccer, a youth soccer program that it's a passion project for me that I think illustrates. And I always like to use sports analogies, but this one is specific to me, where over the years, different coaches and different athletics would say, Hey, why did you make that play? When I was super young, I didn't have the confidence to say what I was actually thinking. But I got to a point where I was like, I saw this and I saw this, so I did this. And a lot of coaches were going, okay, if that's what you saw, that was a great decision. We didn't see that from the sidelines. Thank you for the explanation. Which I think describes the leadership journey to some extent. I'm uniquely positioned to work with lots of business owners so we can see patterns because we're doing volume of work that others don't see. Whether it's financial planning or business trends or whatever it may be, we can start to give that advice to anticipate what's coming at us and then set people up to make good decision A or good decision B rather than be reactive in there. So I hope that does it justice. I know it's a little bit of an abstract description for folks, but that's my journey.

SPEAKER_02 3:33

Yeah. That makes sense. Patterns amongst many businesses where we see it only in our own. And that's not necessarily a pattern, it's a day-to-day.

Leadership Through Pattern Recognition

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah, there it for those numbers dorks out there like me. This is the CPA and me talking, the bell curve of statistics applies. And you think about there's 67% that fit in that first standard deviation. Most people are reacting to a lot of that kind of stuff, but they worry about the second and third standard deviation, which is, you know, what, like 15% and 1%. If we always try to come back to, okay, focus on the majority, focus on the things that are going to happen that are statistical likelihoods to happen. Okay. Because every business owner that has a good idea is going to be the next Mr. Wonderful. But guess what? There's only one Mr. Wonderful. So you have to play those odds as you go through the process.

SPEAKER_02 4:28

I love that. I love that. You talk about 168 hours. We all have the same amount of time each week. How should business owners start thinking differently about how they use their time?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Yeah, this is a great one. And I think a lot of people think time-blocking tactics first. And that's really not what this is about. It's more about efficient use through goal setting, through gaining clarity, through understanding your goals, missions, objectives. So said differently, what I watch a lot of business owners do is they do the things that they think they're supposed to be doing every day. And we go on autopilot. Whereas I have an objective, my objective is to retire by 50. Okay, great. How much are you putting into your retirement account? I'm not really funding retirement right now. That's a normal conversation, but those are conflicting interests. If you want to retire by 50, we've got to be doing the things that directly impact. And that's what the 168-hour block is all about. Are you using your time in the effective way that lines up with your business goals, wishes, and some of those personal components too? Because a lot of small business owners do it to enrich their personal lives and their family lives and their community. And you've got to know both sides of that equation.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

Yeah. I never found that time blocking really worked really well for me. I know some people swear back, but that's just not something that has worked well for me. What are the biggest ways entrepreneurs waste time without realizing it?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

So I've got to speak to kind of I'm going to talk about entrepreneurial myth definitions, the book, the e-myth. They talk about technicians, entrepreneurs, and managers. And what I see a lot of business owners do is they're a technician first because they're great at their craft. But guess what? They're both the entrepreneur and manager too, because it's their business. So they do what they're good at, they do what they know, they do what is comfortable. Engineers design and manage, effectively manage risk through design in building projects. We don't always think about the practical application in the field, or we don't think about the cost sometimes. I can design this never to fall down. At what cost? And you've got to strike those balances. Whereas those that I think are the most successful look at the reality on the other side or say, you know what, I can't be the technician today. Like we're teasing in the green room, right? I'm right square in the middle of tax season. So I need to be doing tax returns. But the reality is if I don't do marketing efforts too, it's going to impact my business. So I have to find a way to do those things that are necessary for my business, not the things that are comfortable for my business.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

I like the way you put that. Absolutely. Because we it comes down to the mindset, I can do it faster than I can teach somebody else how to do it. And then we have to talk about SOPs and systems. But yeah, I think an entrepreneur, when you start something because you're good at it and you enjoy it, it's hard to let it go.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

You're a thousand percent right. And oftentimes, I'm sure you've got some of this in your business too, but there are things we like and we enjoy doing, and like it fulfills our day, and there's this

168 Hours Starts With Clear Goals

SPEAKER_01 7:55

enrichment. But in reality, that's not really what the client wants you to do. Like for me, finishing a tax return is awesome because it's a checklist deal, it's one less task we got to do. It frames out all of the answers that the client wants, but the client could care less about the pieces of paper, they just want to talk about it. Yeah, and so talking about it doesn't get the objective done. So just balancing that back and forth. I get like on the law side, I always we equate this in a state plane. Nobody wants to talk about death. Everybody wants everything organized so it's easy, but then they tell us to do the thing that they know. Well, I want what's easiest for my family, but please do the following. I want you to take this account and do this, and I want you to take this account and do this, and we're gonna designate that. And you just the four or five things. Like we're starting to create a list. So I want what's easy for my family as long as they execute on this list after I'm dead. Guess what? When you're gone, no, you don't give a rip anymore.

SPEAKER_02 8:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

So we have to think through what is the actual easy thing, as opposed to what do we want or what are our emotions driving us towards? Because again, everybody that's talking about death has some layer to an emotional component there based on what happened in your family or how you're reacting to maybe a medical condition or something along those lines. So you've got to be real inside of that. So you brought up a really good point there.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Yeah, it's it is interesting how it that happens. And so you talk about being reactive, not being reactive. So if somebody feels constantly reactive, like you you're starting all these different things and you just don't get anything accomplished because you're getting interrupted or which is the detro distraction thing. Where should somebody start to regain control of their time?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

So I'm gonna give you the real answer and then I'm gonna deviate on this because somebody brought up a good point that I think is worth talking about. But if you're constantly being reactive, there's probably a level of complacency that's going on in business. You usually know what your schedule is and you know what's coming at you, regardless of business. And you should be doing the things that set you up for success in each of those steps. And that might mean on Monday you're preparing for Friday, or maybe on March 1st, you're preparing for I don't know, October 7th. The runway is gonna flex based on projects, all those different things. But this is the piece where somebody raised a good point, and they said, Well, you don't want to be so rigid that you are not reacting to life's changes. And and I was like, Okay, yeah, I think you're hearing me wrong in the sense of you will have to react. That's a natural part of business. The reaction I'm talking about are the ones that make you feel like you're not achieving anything. I got an email, I chose to be responsive to the email. Oh my gosh, it's Monday at 3:30 and I've accomplished nothing. Was that email on your list on Friday when you left? Because if it wasn't, that's the reactive I'm talking about. If it wasn't life or death and it wasn't a major goof where it's going to cause some sort of client relational harm type deal, do you really care or did our emotions get the best of us because we saw it and wanted to react to it? So it's a little bit different in this reaction sense. But I do think people, again, we go on autopilot a little bit. Oh, I got a new client inquiry. I should inquire, I should follow up because everybody says follow-up's the biggest deal on lead generation, right? Right. What if they're not an ideal client? Why are you following up on something you don't want? True. So that's the intentionality I'm talking about as you go through it. It's subtle, but I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

And I think when you finally realize that, say, checking your email five times an hour is actually procrastination. There's no reason to check your email five times an hour to initially.

Comfort Work Versus Necessary Work

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Should we start with the question, why are you checking it? What are you waiting on? Are you waiting on that magical ACH from somebody?

SPEAKER_02 12:01

Or it That's true. Absolutely. So interesting. So you have both a legal and a CPA background. How does that combination change the way you advise business owners?

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Yes, it's a kind of a tough thing to describe if you're not in business owner land and you haven't been there. So I like to use the example that resides around risk. Oftentimes people will come to me and say, I'm gonna start a business. I want to pay the least amount of taxes possible.

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Okay. Makes sense. Why are you starting the business? Why did you reach out to me to start the business? I want to mitigate my risk from third parties, and I heard an entity, an LLC or a corporation is the correct thing to do. Okay, I agree. Let's talk about the other side on tax. Why do you want to pay zero in tax? Oh, I don't want to do all the things. It's too much, it's a large commitment financially is the way I'm going to say it, just to stay neutral for the audience members. Okay, heard, but if you're paying zero in tax, truly paying zero dollars in tax, you're creating a lot of risk because you might be doing things financially that are not wise for the long term. Or maybe you're doing some aggressive tax planning for a reason, but do you understand the strings that are attached? For example, if you buy real estate, you do not get to depreciate all of the real estate in year one. That is not the way people think. They think I paid $100,000, I get $100,000 in deduction. So when you think through this risk conversation, they start with, I want to mitigate risk, immediately followed up with, I want to take on a whole bunch of financial risk. That's not what they say, but that's what comes out of their mouth. As you reconcile those conversations, this is where I think the two disciplines really start to line up. Here's what I heard you say. Here's what I think you meant. Most of the time, people say, I don't want to pay an unreasonable share of taxes. I'm willing to pay my fair share, but I don't know the law well enough to make sure that I'm maximizing my deductions and taking advantage of the different components. So because you're the JD CPA and you can do both sides, most attorneys will say, check with your CPA on your tax elections. Most of your CPAs will say, hey, you need to get the attorney to do the operating agreement and entity formation. I can do both. And I can help consult through that conversation to, in theory, make it go faster. But that maybe resonates with some. I know it's a little more complex of an answer than I think people want, but that's the reality of small business land. To generate revenue, you take on risk. That's the essence of it. So how do we manage that financially, legally, through insurance, through contract, maybe just through client intake? Say no to the good clients and bad and no to the bad clients.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

Well, it's interesting knowing that obviously as an attorney, I need to make sure my paperwork is in line, but also I don't want to pay any more taxes than I have to. How do I know? I need someone that can answer those questions. And luckily, I've got an expert that can help me with that. But knowing what deductions actually, what how to categorize expenses so that they are lined up correctly. That's something that again minimizes the risk you're talking about. But you need to be able to have two professionals in one office makes it a much less expensive thing to go through for a business

Escaping The Reactive Workday

SPEAKER_02 15:40

owner when you have to have multiple meetings and any of that kind of thing. And who has time to go meet with two, three, four, five professionals to get one thing done?

SPEAKER_01 15:48

So it's and add to it what I like to call the telephone game. I might say the sky is blue, and you will hear the guy is glue. And by the time the attorney tells the financial advisor who tells the CPA, and then there's client interpretation in between everything. And we all know clients hear what they want to hear sometimes, right? I'm not poking fun in the sense that they are unintelligent, but what I hear you say is going to get filtered through my filter. That's just the reality of life.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

True.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

So the telephone game can impact an end result. And I watch it and realize I've been the attorney that's working with CPAs, and I've been the CPA that's working with attorneys. And I sometimes have to just cut the middleman out of this. Let's chop down some of these steps and say, can I just get it straight from the source? Can I have the purchase agreement so I can interpret it? Because the purchase agreement usually dictates what's going on, and it's not black or white, it's not risky. But by the time the client tells me, Oh, my sales price was $450,000, and what they meant was my sales price was $350,000 with a hundred thousand dollar non-compete.

unknown 17:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

It matters.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

It absolutely matters. So we've got to get those details on both sides and get them lined up. And to your point, business owners know the rules and oftentimes are very willing participants, but then the law changes. And then the law is always muddy because there's exceptions, and that's the way the tax law works.

SPEAKER_02 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

That is, it's true. Every time there's an update to tax law, it's crazy. Yeah, you need a professional, that's absolutely sure. So you're in your book titled The One 168 Hours, what's one key lesson from the book that every business owner should implement immediately?

SPEAKER_01 17:42

You are in control. I think a lot of people go into this helplessness type feeling, or they maybe internalize too many different moving pieces. And the one thing that I always try to push everybody towards inside of the book is that if you're the business owner, you're setting the objectives, you're setting the goals. You have control over all of that. It may not feel like it sometimes, but the reality is you do have that control. And if you'll slow your mind down a little bit and take a breath and then do the things that align with the objectives and goals that you want, you'll get there. Now I realize there's an audience member going, Yeah, but I just had somebody quit and I've got to go to work and fill in for their job. Hey, guess what? That's what you signed up for. That's part of being in small business.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

I know you're not in control of that immediate day, and you are doing tasks that you otherwise maybe don't want to do because somebody left or that's not everybody's got to chip in those scenarios. But I'm talking about the big picture, not the micro day-to-day pieces. Sometimes you got to do the stuff. And if you're both the owner and the employee, or the manager, or in the emyth, if you're the entrepreneur, the manager, and the technician, if you're playing all those roles, you have to do all of those roles. You don't get to do the fun pieces and not the negative ones. But you are in control.

SPEAKER_02 19:05

I love that. Because we do get lost in the minutia of the day and feel like you don't have the control. At the end of the day, you're going, okay, what did I do all day? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

We're all victim to it, including me, the guy that put it together as a structure in a book. Yeah, I it happens. But if we will normalize that chaos and figure out the exercise to get through the noise to focus on the important, then we're getting somewhere. And I the reality is the 168 hours is based on a week. Everybody has the same amount of time. The best musicians in the world, take your Taylor Swifts of the world, have the exact same amount of time as the local musician playing on the street corner, just hustling for dollars. There may be some talent and aptitude differences, but the reality is you have the same amount of time. How you use it matters, and you're in control of how you use it.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

That is so powerful. It really is.

Balancing Legal Risk And Tax Risk

SPEAKER_02 20:05

You were mentioned also in your book, Lessons from Vegas in the hospitality industry. What can law firms learn from how these businesses create great client experiences?

SPEAKER_01 20:16

Yeah, so I'm going to resonate with a lot of firms on saying something like, it took longer than anticipated because there was an unanticipated risk and we needed to do some more research. And everybody has said that to a client. Client expectation is that they're going to call the attorney on a Monday and have the project done by the end of the day Monday. And the reality is, law firms can't get into substance until they do a conflict check. If we clear conflict checks, then we can fill out the intake form and see if you're a fit. If you're a fit, then we're going to align some info gathering process. Oh my gosh, we've done five or six or seven steps, and the client's going, I just wanted to talk to somebody to see if you could get my deal done by the end of the day. So this hospitality industry example shines through. If you set yourself up, and let's pretend we are at our favorite Las Vegas restaurant. We made reservations, we're super excited, we're going to spend a little extra because we got a bonus or something. If you roll in and the host or hostess says to you, Mr. Papen, we got problems. We're 15 minutes behind. We're slammed because of this fight. I don't really know when we can get you a table. What's your experience with that restaurant? And that is not what they do. What they do is, we're so happy to have you. Thank you for being here. I'm going to introduce you to the bartender. This is Jessica. Jessica has a whiskey menu that you should really experience. We have two seats right here at the bar. Why don't you have the first drink on us? That's a vastly different experience.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

And all the restaurant did is buy them. themselves the 15 minutes to get you in the chair. One you feel put off, the other one you feel like a king or queen.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And that's the Las Vegas experience. And I'm going to play with Las Vegas a little bit here because everything about Las Vegas is about smiles, is about getting you to engage, getting you to be happy, getting you to spend your money. Said nicely, they're extorting you for every dollar they can get while you smile and have the best time on earth, but we're not going to tell anybody about it when we get home. It stays in Vegas. So there's a mystique that comes with that. And they're building that inside of all of these different things. And I think you can build that into a client experience inside of firms. It doesn't have to be freebies and giveaways, but to talk through process and to talk through detail for estate planning. For me, one of the biggest obstacles is getting clients to fill out a questionnaire. Clients love to tell me all the words, but I need your personal financial statement so I can understand what you own to help you structure an estate plan that is useful for you. Oh, let me just tell you about it. No, please fill out the questionnaire because until I can see it in my format, I'm not bringing my A game.

SPEAKER_02 23:22

Yeah, and your format is your visual.

SPEAKER_01 23:24

And you've got the same thing in your world. To get things lined up, you've got to do some sort of data analytics in advance, not just hear what the client is doing with their websites.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

And reality is most clients don't have any idea what any of that means. They're going to say what they think they're doing. And hence the questionnaires. So you can tell I'm passionate about this experience thing, but I've never met somebody that said, It's cool, I'm going to go spend a premium dollar at the reservation. You can screw up my drinks, you can screw up my food, and I'm completely happy with the experience. I'm going to pay you top dollar.

SPEAKER_02 24:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:05

They want the experience. They don't say, hey, please take the meat out of the refrigerator and mash it in this specific way and then put it over on the left instead of on the right. They do none of that stuff, but they'll do it to attorneys. They'll say, I don't want to use your form. Who says I'm not going to use the waitress? I'm going to key in my order to the POS system on my own. No one.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

No.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

And it's the same kind of experience. And sometimes you got to get to clients to go along with you. And I know it feels like I'm maybe painting a negative picture for the client. And I'm not. It's not that at all. Clients are doing what they know. They've never done this before. So you've got to lead them through that process so they can hit those benchmarks. And what we try to convey back to people is I think you hired me for a reason. I have a unique skill set. I assume you want my A game. In order for me to bring my A game, I need A, B, and C from you. If you can do that, I'm there. If you don't want to do that, it's okay. We're just going to have to come up with another alternative. It's probably going to take more and cost more. We'll do it. I just want you bought in on those additional steps. Giving people the option so that they can opt into the best experiences, what I think is key.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

That makes a lot of sense. We have onboarding processes as well. And it's, and if you get pushed back and someone doesn't want to fill your form, but I love the hospitality example you gave because reputation is so big nowadays online. And you lose clients without even being in the room because your reputation reflects that. So being able to give those world-class experiences, explain those communication skills, are invaluable to a five-star review.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And I want people to keep something in mind. Thank Hell's Kitchen and Gordon Ramsey for a minute. This is the world's best. And you watch it on TV that sometimes they make mistakes. And Chef Ramsey makes them own those mistakes. You should do the exact same thing in your business. We're not saying you need perfection. You just got to rise to the level and acknowledge when you miss the mark and make sure you make people whole when you do.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Very good advice. I absolutely

Vegas Style Client Experience Lessons

SPEAKER_02 26:10

agree. So for anyone that's listening today who wants to be more intentional, more client-focused, and efficient in their business, what is the first step they should take this week?

SPEAKER_01 26:20

Do something. If you need some guidance on what it is, I'm going to drive the entrepreneurs nuts with this. But I need 30 minutes. That's it. And for the first 15 minutes, I want you to breathe and think. I want you to put the pens, the notepads, everything away. Just breathe and think. And as you think you through whatever that list is, just reflect and focus. Don't write it down. Resist writing it down. And somebody is thinking right now, Chris? But what if I have this great idea and I forget it? If you forget it by the end of the 15 minutes, it was not that good of an idea. Cut the rope and move on. But this is the essence of getting distracted by the noise. Think for 15 minutes. Whatever you can retain and whatever sticks, you write down and frame out your action work in the next 15. That's what you go do. I'm guilty of it too. I have the greatest idea on a Tuesday on a drive to work based on something the radio guy said. I jot it down, you get to work and you forgot where you wrote it. And you know what? If it was that big a deal, who cares? Why why am I forgetting it? And I think that's the nature of in the moment it sounds great. Maybe there was that hit of dopamine because it's a fun thing or something like that. But all you need is those 30 minutes to go through this distilling process, is what I like to call it. Get focused on the things that matter most and do that.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

So basically spend 15 minutes figuring out your why, and then yeah. Then the what rises to the top.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

They from lots of other people out there. But yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 28:00

Amazing. Absolutely. So if somebody wants to take back control of their 168 hours and make a mindset shift, I don't know why I can't say that today. To be more intentional, is the 30 minutes what you're thinking, or is there an additional mindset shift that we could do that says I can accomplish what I want?

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I always start with a 30-minute focus. And whatever you come up with at the end of that 30 minutes, you have to go execute on. And then when you get to the end of that, you basically repeat the process again. And maybe it's you execute on a Monday. Okay. On Tuesday, repeat the process. Maybe the execution takes two or three weeks. When you're finished with that two or three week project, you repeat the process. The muscle memory is the same. And this is where sports analogies are great. Like all the players go to practice. Doesn't matter the sport. We go to practice, we do the things, we take shots on goal, we do all the stuff all day, every day. What matters is in the game, when you have the shot and you have the opportunity, do you score or do you miss? That's what gets measured, but nobody sees the thousands of hours that go into being ready to optimize that opportunity. That 30-minute thinking process and that execution, that's the practice. So that when you can show up for your customers or your clients, you're ready to bring your eight.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

All right. I'm doing that because I never sit for 30 minutes without making notes, my first

The 30 Minute Focus Habit

SPEAKER_02 29:20

15 minutes. So I know it's hard.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

And I struggle with it too, but I have a room and I lock myself in the room with nothing. And then I walk out of the room and we focus on the one or two things that came out of it.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

All right. You get everybody listening, you got to pick up a copy of his book, 168 hours. So I know my listeners are going to want to connect with you. This has been great information and I love the communication style. Where can people connect with you and have a conversation with you or get your book?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah, a couple of different resources straight out of the gate. LinkedIn's a great place if you look for Chris and then P-A-P-I-N, last name. We dump all kinds of free resources out there, knowledge, just things to get to know you. You can go to papinspeaks.com. That's a website that's designed to get people to all the other websites. And then the book, 168 hours, a small business owners guide that respects your time, is on Amazon. You can find it on my websites and stuff like that too. But usually if you go 168 hours in my name, it'll get you there.

SPEAKER_02 30:20

Fantastic. And we'll make sure that those URLs are in the show notes. Chris, this has been so good. I really enjoyed having the conversation and learning about 30 minutes. Gonna have to put that into some practice.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

That's yeah, it's gonna be a thing. But uh we do time blocks like that. So I'm not asking for anything that people are unfamiliar with. You just have to be intentional with it. I appreciate the opportunity to be here too. Thank you for letting me share with your audience.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Thank you. That's a wrap on today's episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Before you go, I want to make sure that you know about something that could be a real game changer for your firm. If you've been doing the work, showing up, serving clients, but your marketing still isn't producing the caseload

Connect With Chris And Grow Your Firm

SPEAKER_02 31:00

you know you deserve. That's exactly the problem Law Marketing Zone was built to solve. My team and I work exclusively with law firms, and we don't do cookie cutter. We build a strategy around your practice, your market, and your goals. More high-quality leads, better cases, less stress, and more profit. Head over to LawmarketingZone.com slash book a call and book your free case growth session today. The link is in the show notes. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next episode.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Thanks for joining us on another episode of the Leadership in Law Podcast. Remember, you're not alone on this journey. There's a whole community of law firm owners out there facing similar challenges and striving for the same success. Head over to our website at LawMarketingZone.com. From there, connect with other listeners, access valuable resources, and stay up to date on the latest episodes. Don't forget to subscribe and leave us to review on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time, keep leading with vision and keep growing your firm.